Kitty Detectives! Week 4 Discussion 🐈

In this regard at least, the は/が difference similar to the difference in English between “the” and “a”.

If we were talking to each other, and I suddenly said “the dog ate my lunch” when no dog was previously mentioned, you’d ask me “what dog?”. However, if I said “a dog ate my lunch”, you’d understand that I’m bringing up new information - I was sitting around somewhere, and some random dog came and ate my lunch. One notable exception is if I owned a dog, and I knew that you knew that I owned a dog - that is, the fact that I own a dog is information that we share - I might be able to say “the dog ate my lunch” without causing confusion. Maybe.

Going back to Japanese, then, I must use が if I’m going to introduce new information into the conversation - unknown information must be introduced before it can be used as the topic of the sentence. However, if it’s information that we share (or information about a general topic like “all dogs”, or information that’s blatantly obvious, like, it’s something that’s about me, or the weather or the moon or the Pacific Ocean), then it’s perfectly fine to open with は from the beginning.

(This, incidentally, is why question words always take が, because they’re unknown information by definition. It’s always 何が and never 何は.)

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I’m wondering about the last bit. I found this Tae Kim grammar note for かもしれない, but what is しな doing here?

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Here is a lesson from Maggie-sensei on し. It holds the function of listing things, contrasting things, or giving reasons for something.

I believe in this case 黒星 is giving a reason for why he has come there.I don’t have the text (:cry:), but this is where he is talking to はなえ after she attacked him?

Here is what wasabi has to say on な. Genki taught me that it is something like an inward ね. It comes at the end of a sentence and marks the sentence as something you’re saying to yourself, but still in front of other people basically, which would be the 2nd entry on that site. The first one could fit as well, depending on what comes next. He is an older male character. I honestly can see how both could fit.

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Page 33

I just want to check whether I’ve got the grammar right here:

だが

however

ほかに あやしい 人間 も いない し

there is no other suspicious person

[ 事件に つかわれた ような あき家 ] も ない し な

there is no [ vacant house like the one that was used in the incident ] either

And し is used to enumerate two reasons for the inspector thinking the painter might be the culprit after all (even though he rejected Hanae’s ‘unsubstantiated’ story a few pages ago).

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Yeah, seems good! :+1:

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I like the way you divided up the sentence there with square brackets! I’ll have to try doing that myself from now on, it makes life much easier, doesn’t it? Nice one, thank you!

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Page 33

なあんだ. やっぱり, 犯人だと 思っているんじゃないですか?

なあんだ. - What?!
やっぱり, - [you] too, also, likewise
犯人 - culprit
だ - copula
と - quotation particle
思っている - thinking
ん - explanation particle
じゃない - not
です - polite copula
か? - question marker

My problem was deciding what やっぱり means in this sentence, and where it might fit. I’m used to it meaning “as expected, of course” but here it seems to match definition number one in Jisho, of “too, also, likewise”:

“What, you aren’t also thinking [that he] is the culprit, are you?”

Does that look right?

Thanks for any help anyone can offer!

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やっぱり (from やはり) has two uses:

1. Same as before:

「今やはり独身でいる」
“Right now, I’m still a bachelor.” (“I was a bachelor before, and still I am now.”)

2. Same as an other:

「この国もやはり不況だ」
“This country is also in a recession.” (“Another country is in recession, and this country is as well.”)

Important point: Both of these uses have the connotation of “this was the expected outcome”. (You probably saw the outcome from a mile away, and now you’re telling everyone “I told ya’ so!” やっぱり!)

Applying that we’re meeting a prior expectation:

“Right now, I’m still a bachelor, which was expected considering I spend all my time memorizing Koichi’s kanji mnemonics.”

“This country is also in a recession, which is expected since all its citizens are pouring their money into WaniKani subscriptions.”

I read Hanae’s line as:

“Sure enough, you also think he’s the suspect, don’t you?”

(Note that I went for “sure enough” because I think that sounds good in English while still having a meaning of “as expected”.)

Of course, Hanae doesn’t use as many words as I did (“he”), but that’s because the Japanese line excludes words that we need to use in an English sentence.

(Reading up on this has helped me come to better understand やっぱり. Just as I expected it would.)

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Thank you so much @ChristopherFritz! It’s turned out to be a busy old day, but when I get a chance later I’ll re-read your post in more depth, it’s great stuff, thank you!

I like the way you divided up the sentence there with square brackets! I’ll have to try doing that myself from now on, it makes life much easier, doesn’t it? Nice one, thank you!

I teach high school Latin, which is really similar to Japanese in some respects. The verb (often) goes at the end of the sentence and there are lots of little clauses that aren’t started with a conjunction, so they can be hard to spot.

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Oooooooooh, I have thoughts! Just finished a first skim through this week’s pages.

my not-really-fully-fleshed-out theory

Okay, so I stared at the picture of the map for a good minute wondering what the significance of the squiggle was, when I realised it must mean the road wraps around a hill.

I’m guessing therefore that the road running behind the artist’s house is much higher than at the front, such that it’s level with the first-floor windows (I’m British, so I mean 二階 in Japanese :stuck_out_tongue: ). This means the guy created a fake (red) door from a canvas to use as an entrance to the upper floor, where there is presumably usually a sliding screen onto a balcony or similar.

I then read on, to Capone’s marvellous contribution to the case, and assume he must have created a bridge to complete the access to the street.

I’m impressed that he managed to create a strong-enough bridge that felt like solid ground, but fine, I can suspend disbelief on that (or I’m totally off-base :sweat_smile:). I’m also impressed that he managed to create a convincing fake door from a canvas, but I suppose it was dark and he ‘operated’ it. Good job none of his neighbours happened to be out!

The only part that doesn’t make sense to me is that the jeweller woke up in the middle of nowhere, with no houses nearby. I don’t see how the artist could possibly have dragged an unconscious body that far and returned to his class within only 6 or 7 minutes (bearing in mind also that he would have had to time going upstairs and meeting the jeweller pretty precisely - just that part alone could have been a wait of several minutes, and he couldn’t really risk the jeweller arriving first and trying to knock on the door).

And again, all of this is very dependent on nobody seeing his fake entrance (which he would have had to leave up while he was moving the jeweller so that he could get back in the upstairs and go back down to his class). Plus dragging an unconscious body around is kinda suspect!

okay now I’m gonna read Belthazar’s at last :grin: edit: I feel like I over-complicated it :open_mouth:

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Now that you said it, it seems so logical. I didn’t think about this before.
Thanks for the explanatory link!

@Belthazar your explanation was really helpful! I do still struggle with keeping は and が apart ^^

Gaaaah, I really want to read these theories :see_no_evil::grin:
Need to read the next pages first, though :wink:

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が marks a noun (subject) either as doing an action (with a verb) or having an attribute (with an adjective).

Every sentence has a subject, even if it is not spoken. It’s like in English, if you ask someone what they’re doing, and they say “looking for something to eat,” the subject of the sentence is unspoken.

With Japanese, if there is no が in the sentence, that means the subject, the noun performing an action or having an attribute, is unspoken.

The word marked by は is never the one performing an action or having an attribute. However, it is possible the word marked by は and the unspoken subject (in a sentence without が) are the same.

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Hanae is being told off by the Inspector!
But what does なんて mean?

とにかく, かってに 人の家の庭にはいりこむ なんて とんでもないことだぞ

とにかく - In any case
かってに - as one pleases
人の家の庭に - the gardens of people’s houses
はいりこむ - to go into 入り込む
なんて - Not sure of the definition here or of how it fits into the sentence.
とんでもない - (1) unthinkable (2) absolutely not
こと - thing
だ - copula
ぞ - sentence ending particle adding force or indicating a command

“In any case, it is unthinkable going into people’s gardens just as you please!” + なんて!

Thanks for any help anyone can offer!

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Page 34

ドアを 燃やしたってことかね?

ドアを - door + object particle
燃やした - burn, in past tense
って - is this the quotation particle???
こと - thing
か - question marker
ね? - sentence ending particle

I’m guessing the translation would be “was the door burned?”, but perhaps, with the ね, the か is like an embedded question? “So, was the door burned, right?”

And why the って…?

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Page 35

いいえ, そんな大きな もえかすはなかったけど…

いいえ - no
そんな - such
大きな - big
もえかす - embers
は - topic particle
なかった - wasn’t (see question 2 below)
けど… - but (see question 1 below)

“No, although there weren’t such big embers”

Question 1: けど means “but”, yet here it would make more sense to mean “because” wouldn’t it? It that also possible???

Question 2: despite years of “reading” all I do is look things up in the dictionary and follow discussions here and make notes, but nothing ever sticks…. which is why I even find myself having to look up words like ない and なかった!

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Anyway, as I was doing that, and looking at the Jisho conjugations table, a thought struck me…. ない means not. But what on earth does なくない mean!!! I know it’s off topic, but I’d love to know. Does it means “isn’t not”?

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なんて is one of those japanese words that are really hard to translate to English. In general it is used to express emphasis. It is usually translated to ‘such as’, but it is hardly a literal translation. “Doing something such as entering someone else’s garden…(is unthinkable!)” (Tae-Kim link, imabi link)

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It’s often translated as a declarative ‘how’ or ‘what’ - “how unthinkable to enter someone else’s garden”

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Thank you both @2OC3aOdKgwSGlxfz and @Rowena! :+1: :+1:

But, does なんて refer to what comes before it (entering the garden) or after it (unthinkable)?

Is it “how unthinkable” or “things such as entering a garden”.

Or both???

Not sure, but with the line break in the book, perhaps the former as 2OC kitty wrote (I was going for a natural translation rather than a transliteration).

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