Wait what? You mean Japanese words used in our languages?
Makes me wonder what the English pronunciation for those words is in English speaking countries…
Or do you mean the stress of the words? I say “Sàkura” instead of “Sakurà” and “Tsunàmi” instead of “Tsunamì” simply because I’ve learnt them that way to begin with (Sakura through “Narùto”).
But I say “Tèmpura” instead of the “Tempùra” I’ve heard a few friends use, simply because I learned it in Japanese media with the right stress.
So, I wouldn’t change the stress syllable for old words I’ve always known just to make them correct. They are already borrowed language, no need to waste energy on those.
But when it comes to niche words (like Tempura) or words I’ve learned from the Japanese world, I will use the right pronunciation. Why should I change it?? If it is not clear, I’ll just repeat it in the wrong way/ casually explain what the Japanese pronunciation is.
Edit: It came to me that maybe adding the accented vowels is not common practice to say “this syllable has the stress” in English, but that’s what I meant with it.
I think you’re right, like, I say it right but I made a mistake when writing it haha. But to be fair, I checked it on forvo.com and some people say both at the same recording even (as if saying ‘both a possible’).
Because the intonation and pitch patterns can be so different, trying to use the Japanese pronunciation sounds, but also often feels, really jarring, so I pretty much always default to the standard English pronunciation (To-ki-yo), but I’ve found saying “karatii” or “saki” sounds really jarring in English as well, so in certain cases, I go with a more hybrid version, like saying “karate” or “ka-ri-o-ke” with a hard-r so it still fits in with English, but doesn’t feel so wrong to pronounce either.
I see it related to posting on the forums as well. Like, 東京 is a pretty low-level WK word, so we can assume that most everyone here can read it, but if I created a forum post called “My trip to 東京” it just feels pretentious.
Either speak in Japanese or speak in English, but don’t go halfway and start throwing in Japanese words unless it’s a language discussion. Not that I typically see anyone here doing that, but I see it as a comparable situation.
This is pretty much what I do too. With food and places (since those count as names to me so I want to say them the original way) I say them in an almost transliteration from Japanese to English. So I’ll say Tou-kyou instead of to-ki-yo, but I don’t use the Japanese pitch accents and instead use whatever feels/sounds natural in English
But if the person doesn’t get it I’ll switch to the American pronunciation
Edit: though the other day I was offering my friend some こんぺいと and it took me a second to figure out how to say that in English (con-pei-toe I guess)
How far do I go? Too far for my liking but that’s more down to not knowing the common English pronunciation.
People’s names is a special case though. Butchering someone’s name when you know better is just plain wrong and I’ll put up with the reaction. Can’t help that one.
I’d never harass someone over it though. Sure To-ki-yo sounds weird but I can guarantee you that my pronunciation of ‘jalapeño’ is a whole lot worse. Don’t be that guy!
I tell Japanese people my name when I introduce myself, it’s super easy and can be sounded out naturally in Japanese. But apparently I’ve been wrong my entire life, my actual name is "外人さん”.
I say it in a weird American / Japanese combo. Like, I’ll read the word the way it would be written in JP (so To-kyo instead of To-ki-o and gaMbatte instead of gaNbatte), but use the English sounds (like an ENG fu vs a blow-air-out JP ふ) and stress vowels the way you would if it were an English word. I do that last part randomly though, so sometimes a word gets stressed and sometimes it doesn’t. Only exceptions are when I’m saying how the word is actually pronounced / introducing someone to the word for the first time, it’s my first time seeing the word or it’s written in kanji/kana instead of romaji, or I’m screwing around and purposefully read it stupidly.
It annoys me that I’ve had people get onto me about the way I say sake but not the fact that I say Tokyo instead of Tokio
Weirdly enough, people here do say several place names with what I’m assuming is the Ainu pronunciation, or at least not the Japanese way (like the nearby Otoineppu has a few tweaked sounds that I’m having issues transcribing into romaji, sorry but it’s sorta more like oh-toe-nepp). I’ve actually heard people from Sapporo use that pronunciation, but there’s some underlying cultural thing that I just can’t figure out with its usage, so it’s confusing.
I know that wasn’t really the point you were getting at (I’m in general agreement with your points on this thread) but I thought I’d just add this in because I find it interesting and a good example of further language collisions
NEVER say “karaoke” in the japanese way, this must be the absolute worst one to properly pronounce in front of non-Japanese people, you will get made fun of. Most others (tsunami, samurai, ninja, sushi) aren’t very far from how, say, an American would pronounce them. But カラオケ vs care-ee-yo-kee? Might as well be two different worlds lol
I used to say 布団 (ふとん) the Japanese way (fu-ton), but my white friends roasted me so much about it when I was younger that I switched to saying fu-tahn. They kind of have different pitch emphasis, too. Even though I’m living in Japan now, I still catch myself saying fu-tahn sometimes
but it’s sorta more like oh-toe-nepp). I’ve actually heard people from Sapporo use that pronunciation, but there’s some underlying cultural thing that I just can’t figure out with its usage, so it’s confusing.