"Flesh&Blood" Vol. 7 - Pirate Series Reading Club đŸŽâ€â˜ ïž â›”

Japanese Language Book Clubs
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Funny, I thought it was extremely straightforward :blush:

Oh I did not realize he lends all his money to all of them ^^ Thanks for clarifying this.

It’s been a while, but I think that Kaito does not “officially” know that Nigel is in love with him and would be jealous as hell if Geoffrey was to have sex with Kaito in his own house. You know, back when Geoffrey used the playing cards to explain his theory about the four important men they could use to rescue Kaito, it was only Geoffrey and Nigel because Kaito was in prison. In that discussion, Geoffrey and Nigel talk about Nigel’s feelings and they agree that Nigel hides his feelings in front of everybody. Which of course implies “in front of Kaito”. So Geoffrey cannot simply say “he’s jealous” but needs to invent some other semi-plausible reason, is my take.

This feels to me as Kaito being a bit naive here :woman_shrugging: I mean, he is used to dormitory life, and he never had sex before, so maybe he just doesn’t think this through properly.

Sure thing! You raised similar concerns earlier already, and so I simply respond with my own opinion and experience :upside_down_face:

I totally get what you’re talking about, but I think this is really a position of luxury. If you have an apartment or similar space for your own, or the other person has that, then let it flow all you want. But if you are restricted in time / space / opportunity, then a bit of planning might be in order to be able to even create a position that allows for this flow. I’m just a normal (I think) European, but I have also done this a few times, and I can’t even say which I like better because spontaneous sex is a nice thing but knowing about it in advance is also a nice way of building up tension :grin:

I can see that :grin: On the other hand, I’m not much of a talker when it comes to these things, and when my partner is also shy about this, then this can lead to disaster at some point because there are so many unspoken assumptions on either side, and the other side probably knows about none of them :exploding_head: So I must say I was pretty happy to see how openly they could talk about it. I think it depends on where you stand when you read that. :woman_shrugging:

Yes, absolutely! No objections here. As I said in previous chapters, I’m a bit confused about Kaito saying OMG YESS one minute and GO AWAY the next minute :woman_shrugging: I just figured he was slowly coming to grips with his selfishness and being able to see things a bit more from Geoffrey’s standpoint. Also, I can very much relate to his insecurity regarding “what does sex mean and how does it feel” and wanting to overcome this feeling by applying some pressure for himself. But if he really doesn’t want it, he should not do it, no need to discuss here.

No surprise here! Written by a Japanese author for a Japanese audience, I’m actually surprised how openly she talks. I find this quite refreshing, compared to lots of other storylines where people are “secretly” in love with each other, never speak about this, never kiss or even touch, and then they propose and marry :joy:

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There is just a limit to it I feel. As I said, this is a very Japanese mindset, that I will never fully comprehent. You simply cannot be that sheltered imo, living in the 2000s. Kaito’s mentality around sex and physical proximity invokes the feels of a sheltered Mideaval maiden, shut away from the rest of the world, at times imo. Though, it’s a frequent trope in Japanese media in how to portay virgins, it just doesn’t make any sense to me that you, as a virgin, could ever be that unknowledgable about how sex and relationships work. I dunno. It’s a cultur clash thing really.

Discourse, didn’t let me quote ^^; but I have never decided before time to have sex with anyone, and I don’t see myself starting now either. I’ve never heard of anyone doing that either. It just feels jarring. How would I know if I’m up for it ahead of time? It was certainly never necessary back when me and my then current partner were still living with our respective parents. There is opportunity if you want to make it happen. But, if that’s what you have to do, then do it I guess? :woman_shrugging:

I think, having read more western fanficts that I’ve gotten less used to the Japanese way of framing sex, seen not in BL for sure but in general in Japanese media. It’s also connected to a general lack of good psychological basis for their actions for characters in Japanese media. It’s often shallow like in the case here, how Kaito moves between two opposite positions. Basically, the story is dictating his wishes and wants, not the other way around - Kaito’s internal processes and developments being the basis for the story developments - when he’s ready he’s ready and he will then be the one to pursue Jeoffrey, not the other way around.

Because, thinking you’re fine with something happening, is still not the same as actively wanting it. And this, is what I’ve gotten so used to seeing in western writing, that it just struck me that I miss it here. Not sure I’ve explaining this very well, but those are my thoughts for the moment. ^^

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23

It may look like that from a Western POV but I believe that this is reality for many Japanese.
An example: I have a Japanese friend who is my age (I’m 52 in case you wonder) who was transferred to Germany a bit more than 2 years ago, and we met through Tandem shortly after his arrival and a bit later also in person because I happened to be in his town. We chat each week on Line, and we meet every now and then as he likes to get to know Europe a bit, and I like to show him around whenever possible. I’m a sucker for physical contact so I love to hug people for “hello” and “goodbye” but he is not able to do that - the best he could muster after a year (!) is to shake my hand (which feels super alienating to me btw) ALTHOUGH we even share the same hotel room on occasion :exploding_head:

Another good example is sauna. I love to go there, and German sauna means fully naked and also usually mixed gender. (I believe this is the same in Scandinavia but I have been surprised by other countrys’ sauna habits that I stopped to assume anything in that regard :upside_down_face:) Whenever I talk to Japanese about German sauna they are super weirded out and usually tell me they wouldn’t be able to do that, one (male, in his 30’s, fwiw) friend even getting red in the face and visibly squirming on the mere thought :woman_shrugging:

So yeah, I absolutely believe that half of the population of Japan is at the level of a sheltered medieval maiden when it comes to these things


Ah yeah, I’m not necessarily talking fixed relationships here. That’s usually a whole different story.

The business model around this goes by the name of “Tinder” :rofl: (no, I’ve never used it, for a variety of reasons)

TBH I don’t think I have read anything like this ever before - I mean yes, of course I read books where sex happens and stuff, but nothing where romance or BL is at the core. So maybe that’s why it doesn’t feel as unnatural for me as it seems to feel for you?

Interesting! On the one hand, I see myself (at that age) quite a bit in Kaito, with his insecurity and his being torn between wanting and being afraid :woman_shrugging:

This feels like this is the way life is, at least for me, at least to some extent. I think that might be the fundamental difference between you and me? Life did not always go according to my wishes, and still doesn’t today, and I need to get to grips with that and make the best out of it. Is my take :sweat_smile:

Anyways thank you very much for letting me in on your thought processes, I really appreciate to be able to see things from your angle as well! :bowing_woman:

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Chapter 4 ~ thoughts

Well, I’m defo not stopping my reading now! ^>^

Jeoffrey isn’t helping selling this sex thing with the talk about it being painful! >_> But, I guess, being upfront about it not being easy in the beginning might be for the best, though it really shouldn’t be painful. ^^;

Well, Jeoffrey and Kaito arrive at the inn. There they’re greeted by Lily the okami. I thought is funny how specific Natsuki-sensei were about the type of voice she has! :joy: I had to look up the person since I didn’t know her. But, apparently Kim Wilde made it big in Japan! :joy: キッă‚șăƒ»ă‚€ăƒłăƒ»ă‚ąăƒĄăƒȘă‚«ă€€ă‚­ăƒ ăƒ»ăƒŻă‚€ăƒ«ăƒ‰ - YouTube (I’m weak for synth music like this) Apparently Lily also keeps in the loop of knowing about diseases.

Finally read the last pages


Anyway, after much ado Jeoffrey and Kaito soon find themselves led to the bathroom, as in a place for washing up specifically. So not their own room. There’s both a tub and a primitive shower. :astonished:

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In any case, chapter 5 thougths

After making use of the shower, they can both get a hot soak that turns even more heated! :wink: :blush:

I do love the moment after Kaito has finished washing Jeoffrey’s hair, when he finally undresses completely in Jeoffrey’s presence. It’s such a tender moment of trust, willingness to give and receive love. :slight_smile: I think this is what makes the following scenes work for me. Like we’ve landed emotionally, finally. Jeoffrey is fully understanding and accepting Kaito as he is right now here. He’s also in a very receptive mode, willing to take things as the go. :slight_smile:


This is why I felt it moving a bit too slow between these two. They had plenty of opportunity to fool around just in general doing stuff like this on Gloria. This is also sex. Penetration is just one aspect of it. just some thoughts. It certainly would have made going further a little less of a giant leap for Kaito, who seems completely unaccustomed to any form of carnal pleasure, again a trope I will never understand. Being a virgin, doesn’t (usually) mean you have never even masturbated before.

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Chapter 6

Jeoffrey really is besotted with Kaito. Now he’s building him his own bathroom in the same style as the inn’s (even with improvements)! :joy: :shower: Shower power!

In any case, they’ve returned to their room and now things gradually moves onto next stage stuff.

biggest unrealistic moment so far, English Jeoffrey somehow understanding the Japanese meaning of “no” during sex, meaning "yes, but I’m not supposed to enjoy anything sexual at all, so I’m going to protest anything you do to me, whether it’s good or not, good luck figuring out when I actually mean no :+1: ". ^^; Me, meanwhile thinking: Kaito, “just enjoy being blown, okay
” ^^;

major spoiler

But, Kaito still wants the whole package. But since he’s completely inexperienced in all things sexual, he’s having a hard time when it comes down to it. And, in the end, Jeoffrey never does the deed, so to speak, since Kaito is simply too tight and unrelaxed.

Jeoffrey, is accepting of this and is fine with waiting for the next occasion. But Kaito gets very upset at having “failed” his lover. :C

More interestingly than the sex in this chapter, I find the stuff happening


before things get heated again, Jeoffrey finally returns Kaito his stuff, as in Kaito’s wallet and the picture of him and Kazuya in Plymouth, our time, confessing, he was scared Kaito would long to go back if he got them back. And in return, Kaito concludes he will never go back to his own time and Kazuya, seeing his place at Jeoffrey’s side. :heart: BUT, Jeoffrey is willing to give Kaito even more. He remembers Kaito being upset about having fought with Kazuya before leaving. So, Jeoffrey promises Kaito that he will take him to Japan after the war is over (and he and Gloria are presumably free of obligations), so that he can see Kazuya one more time. :sob: Jeoffrey, you’re a too good a man really! :sob:
 :eyes:

Grammar question p 146 ïœžăŻăŸă—ă 
I think I understand this phrase, whenever I see it, but I’ve never seen it actually explained. For me it’s about juxtapositioning of something against something. “when faced with X, might as well do Y” sort of concept. I can’t explain it at all I find. ^^; Any help if welcome! <3

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I take it to be just ăŸă— - Jisho.org so “it would be better if
” or something (haven’t looked at the phrase in question but that’s what I think usually fits).

Will reply to your other stuff when I have a bit more time!

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I didn’t realize that mashi is from 汗し! 汗 meaning increase, but also has the meaning of “augment, promote”, which is a bit like in the underlying meaning of 汗し - something being less objectionable. The juxtapositioning meaning is baked into the concept as I thought. X being preferable to Y, basically.

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Chapter 7 thoughts

Moving onto the next day, Kaito is given the keys to Jeoffrey’s chest of belongings and access to his purse to see to his needs. I read this as a means to reassure Kaito, that he’s now an integrated part of Jeoffrey’s life and the closest he has, and that he’s trusted completely. In the light of the night before, it’s like a way to placate Kaito’s insecurities and make him not feel rejected. :face_holding_back_tears: in other words, Jeoffrey again being super-sweet and caring.

In any case, Kaito gets up and finds Lily. She ends up helping him taking a shower before breakfast, which leads to some time for them to talk on their own. :eyes: And there’s some real secrets to be shared here! :astonished:

Major spoiler

Turns out, Lily isn’t just any brothel owner with a hubby, living in Plymouth
she’s got a lot more in common with Kaito than a knack for herbs and medicine. :eyes: Just like him, she’s also fallen through a wormhole to this part of human history, though she comes from an earlier era, the '70s even! O_O Basically, she was getting high at the time of her time slip, so doesn’t have much recollections of it. :rofl: Well, since Kaito is from a later stage in human history, he’s able to catch Lily up on some pop history events. it’s a rather fun and interesting conversation to read for sure. :eyes: Also makes he happy for Kaito that he’s now got Lily to confide in! <3 ^^

I really love Lily as a character and her mute husband Sam. And this scene with Kaito allows him - and us - to be reminded of his real self, someone that’s quite lost at the moment as to why he’s there. :eyes:

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spoiler
Great detail to notice! I missed this one, but yeah, that helps us understand the Kazuya dreams a bit better I think. :eyes:

Loved the shared image as well! ^>^ <3<3<3

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Chapter 8 thoughts

Lily and Kaito bond some more over the longing for non-alcoholic morning drinks! XD :coffee: Made me wanna try chicory coffee sometime. :slight_smile:

Lily also convinces Kaito that he really needs to get baptised, the sooner the better for his own safety. Not to mention having Elizabeth and Drake as his gudförÀldrar is hard to beat.

Lily also suggests Sam could accompany Kaito (for additional safety), so he could take another look at the Hoe. Kaito doing his own thing, seems like a big step up. Not being completely reliant on everyone on Gloria, and Jeoffrey particularly for agency. :eyes:


On the way there, Kaito see the festival and celebrations. But, there they run into Nigel. And so Nigel ends up accompanying Kaito to the Hoe, with Sam returning to the inn/brothel.

major spoiler

This is turning into a rather fateful choice for the both of them. :eyes: Kaito falls asleep on the hill, among the grasses and flowers. There, Nigel ends up showing his true feelings for Kaito. And doing so, is a major distraction of fatal consequences! Out of the blue they’re attacked by Vincente’s men. There’s quite a bit more happening, but the end point is that Nigel is overpowered and injured. To save his life, Kaito end up in the hands of Vincente! O_O

spoiler thoughts

Summary

I think Nigel is a bit too selfish here, kissing Kaito when he’s asleep and can’t give consent and then demanding him to forget about his real feelings. That’s just not how things work
>_>

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Chapter 4:

Do you mean that he shouldn’t do it if it hurts Kaito, or that it shouldn’t hurt Kaito even if he did it?

I think it’s quite normal that things hurt when the body is not made for it in the first place and/or was not allowed to get used to it. I have no experience with anal sex but I talked to a very experienced friend, and he told me the same as Geoffrey - you can’t simply hop on and call it a day, you need to prepare the receiving part for it. And this holds true for all sorts of activities that stretch the bodily tissues, be it developing a flesh tunnel, giving birth, having vaginal sex with large objects and the like. :woman_shrugging:

What I really thought odd about this is that to me Kim Wilde has just an extremely standard female voice, don’t you think? So why did she explicitly mention this? I can only imagine her wanting to show off with her European pop culture knowledge. :thinking: I thought it would have been more interesting to choose a really peculiar voice, like Gianna Nannini, Bonnie Tyler or even Marianne Faithfull or Annie Lennox. :woman_shrugging:

Chapter 5:

I also thought that was a really beautiful moment for them! :smiling_face_with_three_hearts:

With all the extremely religious and extremely superstitious sailors around? I seriously doubt that would have been a good idea


Oh, yes, absolutely. And if you remember when they were in the inn in London, before Kaito was taken to the court, they also made out without penetration, but Geoffrey also made it clear that it’s hard for him and that he wants more at some point.

Oh, did he not? I thought he reflected on his time at the boarding school, and my impression was that he did masturbate alright but that he didn’t need it as much. Which is just fair and should be recognized as well. But maybe I’m just confusing things


Chapter 6:

I must say Geoffrey’s kindness and friendliness feels waaay more unrealistic to me than Kaito’s uptight behavior :grin: :woman_shrugging:

Chapter 8:

Real coffee is much better though, so don’t get your hopes too high please :wink:

Doesn’t he only demand him to forget about the event itself, though? :thinking:

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Alrighty; as prophesied, I have arisen! Read through chapter 1 this morning, and it was a chonker! My Kindle says I’m already about 20% of the way through the book, which feels wrong. Maybe the rest are going to be really short chapters? (All spoilered text and replies is for chapter 1.)

Anyway, we open with a check-in on Kazuya’s situation. He’s not in jail anymore, at least, though it seems home life is pretty tense. I’m not sure yet whether Kaito thinks this is just a dream or him peeking into real life; I’m definitely on the latter’s side since it’s just so much more interesting.

After that we have a scare off the side of the boat: Kaito thinks he sees the boy who died last book, trying to climb up the side. My immediate thought is that, obviously, Kaito’s being haunted by the boy’s ghost. Nigel and Geoffrey have an alternate explanation, though: the creature was a Bucca. (Japanese wikipedia page here; it’s not linked to the English one, for some reason.) Geoffrey manages to bribe it away, but Kaito’s still haunted by the cabin boy as he goes to sleep. :frowning:

I liked the sneaky way Kaito manages to pass on Will’s info to Geoffrey; I was pretty pleased to see how careful he is about not ratting out his sources.

Oooh, I had completely forgotten about this. Spooky!

I’m really curious what Kazuya was dreaming about; I would kill a minor character to see. Was he actually seeing Kaito, or was it a normal dream?

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Chapter 2 finished up real quick; no major thoughts for this one. I’m always glad to have a Geoffrey chapter; poor guy seems to be about five seconds away from tearing off all of Kaito’s clothes and having his way with him, haha.

Loool

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Jeoffrey has the patience of an angel! XD But, me too. I find I really enjoy reading this story whenever from Jeoffreys POV! :eyes:

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I get the feeling you’re reading my comments way to literally, not the gist of them. ^^; I’ll see if I can explain it better later on.

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I got a good laugh out of (ch.2 spoiler) Geoffrey wondering what far east mystic voodoo Kaito had cast on him to make him fall so head over heels, haha. Still waiting on my Nigel chapter. :melting_face:

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Hahaha I guess it’s the world-renowned “cute Japanese boy” voodoo :joy_cat:

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Kaito’s apparently got them big puppy dog eyes. :dog:

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Chapter 3 finished. Looks like we skipped stopping at Dover and the story picked up at Plymouth? It was really nice to see some of the Gloria’s crew again, and somewhat hilarious to hear the predicament they managed to get into. So all of them somehow picked up a new lady friend and passed out in the woods with her? Good grief guys.

I’m also wondering at this point just how much money was in that pouch Elizabeth gave Kaito. Enough for Yuan to be shocked when he looked into it, at least.

Looks like we’ll be traveling to the inn next, where Geoffrey is looking forward to finally letting loose. :eyes: I would love to know what was going through Nigel’s brain when they parted; I have a feeling he knows exactly what Geoffrey is up to, and I’m wondering how much it’s eating away at him inside.

Interesting to note that Yuan also seems to know that Geoffrey’s gay. Must be an open secret among the crew, maybe? He and Rufus definitely know, at least.

So looking at everyone else’s comments, is ラケン supposed to be read Juan? Maybe I’ve been reading that name a little too literally


That is correct; at this point Kaito’s under the assumption that Nigel just sees him as a friend.

My thoughts in regards to this is that, at the time he finally said “yes” to Geoffrey, he was still recovering from the whole prison episode and was likely worried about maintaining/affirming his ties with Geoffrey. I get the feeling that Kaito’s not that interested/ready for the sex at this point, but we’ve seen time and time again how insecure Kaito can be about people’s opinions of him, so him agreeing to it doesn’t feel that out of character for me. Whether this ends up backfiring on him I’ll have to see.

It was really interesting reading you guys’ thoughts on the sex issue; I think I lean more towards Nicole’s position, though I definitely understand where you’re coming from ekg. I think I’m mostly waiting to reserve judgement until I get to that part itself; Kaito’s reaction there should be pretty illuminating.

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