"Flesh&Blood" Vol. 5 - Pirate Series Reading Club 🏴‍☠ ⛵

“Flesh&Blood” series home thread

Welcome to the “Flesh&Blood” Vol. 5 Reading Club!

Back to Vol. 4
Forward to Vol. 6

Participants

  • I am planning to read this book
  • I am currently reading this book
  • I have finished this book
  • I am taking a break and will return
  • I have dropped the book and will not return
  • I don’t plan to read this book

0 voters

Please update your status accordingly whenever it changes.

Chapters

Chapter Kindle % BookWalker % Physical
Chapter 1 1% 3% p.5
Chapter 2 10% 12% p.26
Chapter 3 22% 23% p.49
Chapter 4 30% 30% p.66
Chapter 5 38% 39% p.85
Chapter 6 47% 47% p.102
Chapter 7 55% 55% p.119
Chapter 8 63% 63% p.136
Chapter 9 74% 73% p.158
Chapter 10 82% 81% p.174
Chapter 11 95% 94% p.202
あとがき 99% 98% p.212

Discussion Rules

Discussing anything is fine, be it about language questions, about the contents or about real historic events! Please state clearly which chapter (or roughly which percentage) you’re referring to, and please hide spoilers. Also, don’t forget the forum etiquette, of course.

Buying the Book

If you’re planning to buy the book on Bookwalker or Amazon and if you’re outside of Japan, you will need a VPN to buy them. Afterwards, you can download it to the app without the need for a VPN. I think you cannot read it in the browser without VPN, though.

Vol. 5 on Bookwalker
Vol. 5 on Amazon

Vocab sheet

Artwork from volume 5

Full color Extras

Vol 5, ch 1 , p 13

Vol 5, ch 3, p 61

Vol 5, ch 6, p 105

Vol 5, ch 10, p 201

Vol 5, ch 11, p 207

松岡なつきのあとがき, p 212-213

Historical Figures, Events and Places

The book mentions a lot of real (as far as we know :sweat_smile:) historical figures and events. Here are some information resources on them. (Please be aware that if you want to go in 100% blind, these lists will contain some spoilers for you)

Please add Chapter, Page, if possible, when something is mentioned in the story.

Historical Figures and Groups

Alfred the Great / of Wessex (Ch 4) Alfred the Great - Wikipedia
Anne Boleyn (Ch 9) Anne Boleyn - Wikipedia
Catherine of Aragon (キャサリン王妃) (Ch 9) Catherine of Aragon - Wikipedia
Charles II (Ch 2) Charles II of England - Wikipedia
Christopher Hatton (Ch 10, p 175) Christopher Hatton - Wikipedia
Edward II (Ch 2) Edward II of England - Wikipedia
Edward Arden (wrongly called エリック) (Ch 7) Edward Arden - Wikipedia
Francis Walsingham (Ch 3, p. 50) Wikipedia article
Henry VIII (ヘンリー王) (Ch 8) Henry VIII - Wikipedia
Isabella of France (イザベル) (Ch 2) Isabella of France - Wikipedia
John Fisher (Ch 9) John Fisher - Wikipedia
Mary Stuart (Ch 9) Mary, Queen of Scots - Wikipedia
Nicholas Hilliard (Ch 8) Nicholas Hilliard - Wikipedia
Nostradamus (Ch 8, p 146) Nostradamus - Wikipedia
Penelope Blount, Countess of Devonshire, Lady Rich (Ch 3, p 53) Penelope Blount, Countess of Devonshire - Wikipedia
Philip Sidney, Sir (Ch 3, p 53) Philip Sidney - Wikipedia
Richard Grenville (Ch 3, p 57) Richard Grenville - Wikipedia
Robert Cecil (Ch 8) Robert Cecil, 1st Earl of Salisbury - Wikipedia
Robert Devereux, 2nd Earl of Essex (Ch 3) Robert Devereux, 2nd Earl of Essex - Wikipedia
Robert Dudley (Ch 3, p 50) Wikipedia article
Saint Nicholas (Ch 5) Saint Nicholas - Wikipedia
Thomas More (Ch 9) Thomas More - Wikipedia
Thomas Walsingham (book calls him the son of Francis Walsingham but that’s apparently wrong) (Ch 3) Thomas Walsingham (literary patron) - Wikipedia
Walter Raleigh (Ch 3, p 50) Wikipedia article
William Cecil (Ch 3, p 50) William Cecil, 1st Baron Burghley - Wikipedia
Cardinal Thomas Wolsey (ウルジー枢機卿) (Ch 8) Thomas Wolsey - Wikipedia

Places

Bedlam / Bethlem Royal Hospital (Ch 6, p 103) Bedlam | hospital, Beckenham, England, United Kingdom | Britannica # Bethlem Royal Hospital - Wikipedia
Bristol (Ch 4) Bristol - Wikipedia
Buckland Abbey (Ch 3) Buckland Abbey - Wikipedia
Clink, The (Ch 1, p 10) The Clink - Wikipedia + https://www.clink.co.uk/
Cowes (カウズ) (Ch 1) Cowes - Wikipedia
Deptford (デットフォード) (Ch 1) Deptford - Wikipedia
Isle of Wight (ワイト島) (Ch 3) Isle of Wight - Wikipedia
Land’s End (Ch 4) Land's End - Wikipedia
London Bridge (Ch 8) London Bridge - Wikipedia
Penzance (Ch 4) Penzance - Wikipedia
Plymouth (Ch 4) Plymouth - Wikipedia
Portsmouth (ポーツマス) (Ch 1) Portsmouth - Wikipedia
Southampton (サウサンプトン) (Ch 1) Southampton - Wikipedia
Southwark (サザーク) (Ch 1, p 10) London Borough of Southwark – Wikipedia
Spithead (スピットヘッド) (Ch 3) Spithead - Wikipedia
St Ives (セント・アイヴス) (Ch 4) St Ives, Cornwall - Wikipedia
Stratford (Ch 9) Stratford-upon-Avon - Wikipedia
River Thames (Ch 8) River Thames - Wikipedia
Tower of London (Ch 2) Tower of London - Wikipedia
Tyburn (タイバーン) (Ch 10) Tyburn - Wikipedia
Wales (Ch 4) Wales - Wikipedia
Westminster Abbey (Ch 8) Westminster Abbey - Wikipedia
Palace of Whitehall (Ch 8) Palace of Whitehall - Wikipedia
Winchester (Ch 4) Winchester - Wikipedia
Zutphen, The Netherlands (ザトフェン) (Ch 3, p 53) Zutphen - Wikipedia

Historical Events etc

Astrophel and Stella (Ch 3, p 53) Astrophel and Stella - Wikipedia
Battle of Zutphen (Ch 3, p 53) Battle of Zutphen - Wikipedia
Benefit of Clergy (Ch 10) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benefit_of_clergy
Homosexuality in 16th century Britain (general reminder) (Ch 11) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_LGBT_history_in_the_United_Kingdom#16th_century
Jonah and the Whale (Ch 7) https://www.biblestudytools.com/bible-stories/jonah-and-the-whale.html
Ravens of the Tower of London (Ch 2) https://www.hrp.org.uk/tower-of-london/whats-on/the-ravens/#gs.f09rkq # https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ravens_of_the_Tower_of_London
Romeo and Juliet; Father Laurence (ロレンス神父) (Ch 9) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romeo_%2B_Juliet
Star Chamber (Ch 10) Wikipedia article
Tamburlaine (Ch 9) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamburlaine
Tudor period (チューダー朝) (Ch 9) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tudor_period
Viking Invasion of England (Ch 4) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viking_Age#England

Historical inaccuracies
  • Ch 3: The book states (twice even!) that Thomas Walsingham is Francis Walsingham’s son but according to Wikipedia this is not correct; Thomas is Francis’ cousin’s son.
  • Ch 7: Edward Arden is wrongly called “Eric Arden”.
  • Ch 10: Benefit of clergy seems to have been granted to any person who could read; Kaito was asked to write to prove applicability.
Diagram of the people mentioned in Chapter 3

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Fun fact: Monday is International Talk Like a Pirate Day. I wanna see you lot discuss this book like pirates. :slightly_smiling_face:

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We’re still on volume 4 though. ^^;

@NicoleRauch as always, I’ll update as soon as I’m able with the art for the book. :slight_smile: Google sheets coming up shortly as well. ^^ Also, page numbers!

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Well, I’ma pop by the volume 4 thread later and make sure you’re all following the rules. Mateys. :slightly_smiling_face:

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Sure, sure, no rush! I’m also planning to catch up with my other book clubs before continuing this series (this time for real, hopefully!). Also, some studying for JLPT might be in order…
I just figured I’d already put up the thread so that I cannot forget later on :grin:

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I would have done the same for sure. Then I saw you had actually finished it and got curious. I think you should just do you! :slight_smile: Whether that is studying more seriously, or just enjoying your reading and sharing your thoughts with us - it’s all fine really! ^>^

I’m very thankful for you helping out with filling in all the names in the last volume. It got me into a mode where I just didn’t check things out anymore, until I saw you had given me some answers already. :relieved:

Let’s keep the team-working going in this next volume! :slight_smile:

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Can totally relate! There were just soooo many names and places :exploding_head: While I was a bit like that for the chapters that were set in Spain (like, omg yet another crazy Spanish name, nopenopenope :sweat_smile:) on the English side of things I got really curious. And the more difficult it was to figure out who might have been the person behind that string of katakana, the more curious I got :grin: But I must confess I couldn’t figure out all of them - still it’s an impressive list already. So please help yourself and enjoy!

Absolutely! :muscle:

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So, I finished vol 4 finally. How are you feeling about starting in on vol 5? :slight_smile: I don’t know if I’ll read anything more today. But, maybe a bit would be fun. That cliffhanger from vol 4 is eating at me. XD

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I would say, maybe give me a week before we start 5? I can absolutely start now if you guys want to, but a week would give me time to finish up a few loose ends here and there.

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Sounds good to me! :+1:

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I wonder how many F&B books we can finish by the end of the year. A minimum of one per month would be 7 total finished, but I could see an extra or two sneaking in there if we start partway through a month.

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なんか…ごめんね :sweat_smile:

…I couldn’t keep myself from opening up the volume. So, I’m on chapter 2 all of a sudden. But, I doubt I’ll keep this up for long. We’ll see. My energy for reading comes and goes usually.

Chapter 1 thoughts

Jeoffrey desperately tries to ease the fate of Kaito and he manages some of it. Rather than being thrown into the infamous Newgate prison, Kaito is instead sent to The Clink, which at the time mostly held heretics. Jeoffrey also buys some time for Kaito, during which he’s to find witnesses disputing the murder claims. It’s a race against the clock before Walshingham gets to use torture to force a confession out of Kaito. :grimacing:

it’s very interesting that you can pay to get food and drink into the prison, which Drake is willing to do to ensure Kaito isn’t wasting away in there.

Chapter 2 thoughts
This chapter is from Kaito’s perspective as he’s incarcerated at The Clink. It’s certainly a very unpleasant experience all round. He also goes into introspection mode about his fears of being left behind if Jeoffrey’s desire for him ends up being sated.

The chapter also reads almost like a thriller, in that there’s much tension about what’s going to happen to Kaito. dun dun dun

Now here’s some stuff here that got me researching: The ravens of the Tower of London: The ravens | Tower of London | Historic Royal Palaces I’m unsure how this is read 獲衛官, but it’s probably translated as The Ravenmaster or rather it being a reference to this?

But, yeah, things just got much much worse for Kaito! :cold_sweat: Walshingham isn’t shy about ignoring a direct order of the queen and has sent in a torture expert to interrogate Kaito. (just hurt him in places you can’t see! :scream: )

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So I read some of your spoilers because I’m also pretty excited for volume 5, and I have to ask: is there any actual torture shown here? Or implied? Or held off until next chapter? I’m super squicky about stuff like that; it’s really hard for me to read. :< I want Kaito to be okay…

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There is description of exactly what he went through, though in the end, the chosen method is sleep deprivation, so it’s not of the super icky kind, thankfully. Chapter 2 is still pretty difficult to read regardless, due to the feelings of horror. You can skip it of you want to. And maybe ask more questions about it and I’ll try to give you some more details about stuff that might be interesting to know about Kaito’s time at the Clink in this chapter.

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Chapter 3 thoughts

Back to Jeoffrey’s POV. The lack of urgency in the beginning here didn’t land well with me: what are you doing?! Get on a horse and go to the rescue already! >:c Well, turns out they do need a bit more thought behind their actions to actually get Kaito out of the Clink. But yeah, having just read about what Kaito goes through makes me immediately want someone to rescue him. Y_Y

Page 50-53
To be honest, I can’t keep track anymore of all these historical people! :face_with_spiral_eyes:

p 53
I do wonder about what people at the time read into artistic works. Whether its probable for anyone to make a connection, such as the one Jeoffrey makes for Astrophel and Stella? In this case, the reading of Philip Sidney and Penelope’s possible relationship into the work is only speculated about in current historical research. Would people at the time be any wiser? Knowledge has certainly disappeared, but people also weren’t very scholarly or knowledgeable about things due to the lack of easily available information. :thinking: And I guess, who encountered sonnets like this might be something to consider, i.e. I’m assuming the upper classes. Most works of art were not public or readily accessible.

In any case, after much plotting and scheming, trying to figure out how to best manipulate the people of the Elizabethan court, making them play into their attempt to save Kaito, Nigel and Jeoffrey finalize their plans.

Major spoiler
…Only to have a real heart-to-heart moment! Some honest revelations are shared and things become much more clear as to the current dynamic of this trio. :eyes: :small_red_triangle: I’m glad Jeoffrey and Nigel can have a conversation like this. That it doesn’t seem like it will undermine their friendship. I really love Jeoffrey and Nigel and so I don’t want to see Kaito become a wedge between them

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I was planned to watch anime this week end, but this book-series is a black hole and I’m beyond the event horizon! Halp! XD

Chapter 4 thoughts

Major spoiler again
I had a major moment of confusion as I started reading this chapter, but it’s really quite brilliant! :astonished: This chapter isn’t about Kaito, as you might think as you start with the descriptions, but we’re jumping in time and space, and now we’re finally learning of the fate of Katsuya. Like Kaito, he’s incarcerated for the suspicion of murder: the murder of Kaito! Poor Katsuya! :C

Continuation of spoilers…


He’s having a very hard time with the police not believing his story of the events. There’s even a witness who saw him hit Kaito back in volume 1, when Kaito said he didn’t think of Katsuya as a real friend (that Katsuya merely stayed around because of their fathers). It all doesn’t add up for Katsuya, and there is no explanation for Kaito’s disappearance than Katsuya saying he was gone when he got back after calling for an ambulance. Things aren’t looking good for him. :cry:

More spoilers, and some speculation
After the interlude of Katsuya’s situation, we’re back to Kaito’s fate at the hands of the interrogator. :grimacing: It’s not going well for him. But, interestingly, it seems Kaito was dreaming of the fate of Katsuya, as in, he’s made aware of his situation (I take it all happens actually to Katsuya and it’s not a simple dream meaning there is some mystical connection between Kaito and Katsuya. :eyes:

Okay, now is a good time to pause things. Mid-chapter 4 lol. (I just worry about Kaito alright, but now I also feel like lots of stuff has to sink in before continuing. )

EDIT
Well, I finished Ch 4. Jeoffrey really need to hurry up here. :C

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Thank you for the reply! I’ll have to see how I handle it when the time comes; it may be a good thing you’re reading ahead; you can warn me about any bad parts. :cry:

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Chapter 5 thoughts

Nigel and Jeoffrey have made their way to the monastery where the priest served, asking around for possible clues of underlying bad health, which might clear Kaito of the charges of murder.

Their investigation doesn’t yield much, but they still bring one of the priests back to London with them.

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Alrighty, I have officially started volume 5! \o/ I’ve finished chapter 1, and after thinking it over, I think I want to skip chapter 2 for now; chapter 3 looks like a Jeoffrey chapter, so it’s probably safe. Could you tell me if there’s anything important that happens I need to know about in chapter 2, @ekg? I really appreciate it. :pray:

In happier news, I noticed an incredibly important detail in the full color pictures of this volume: Blackie finally makes his illustrative debut! :smile_cat: He’s looking incredibly cute, just as anticipated. I’m hoping he’s okay during all this mess with the bishop dying. :cry:

Jeoffrey commenting that Kit’s been in an out of prison enough he probably knows the gaolers well also made me smile.

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Spoilers for chapter 2

I think the introspection part was the most interesting thing to keep in mind, that is: Kaito’s insecurities about his relationship with Jeoffrey. He seems to think that if he gives into Jeoffrey’s advances, and let’s him sate his desire by having sex, that would be enough for Jeoffrey who’d then leave him. I think this is a very strange view of sex, as I’ve hinted at before, which is very BL imo. After all, I think of sex as a natural part of any relationship which you’ll wanna do often. XD It’s nothing you need to build up to as such, not even the first time.

Also, about the reward Kaito got from the queen, that’s been settled as well (the discussion how much he got, if it was just one gold coin or several). Basically, Kaito uses part of his money to bribe the guards into allowing him a candle in the cell. I think there was something more he also payed for, but yeah, good thing he got all that money!

Also, we now know Walshingham never intended to keep to the Queen’s orders of no torture during Jeoffrey’s investigation time. He immediately made his move, ordering Kaito’s sleep deprivation torture, so there would be no evidence.

I think those are the main points from the chapter. :thinking:

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