Finally at the stage where every learner ends up at, Recommendations needed and advise from personal experiances

Japanese Language Listening
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So this post addresses to folks here who learned Japanese as a second language rather than acquired naturally over the years via anime (something heavily circulated)

Considering i am appearing for JLPT N4 , initially i wasted much time listening and watching to random Japanese shows to train my ear but it was wise to realise to get accustomed to only the words that will be tested.

First month including the time wasted was much spent on compiling words under relevant categories for the brain to latch on and recall easily and ton of researching on how to go on about learning the language and then observing and getting a hang of rules, nuances and framework of the language itself while learning hiragana and kanji radicals before diving on to the real deal of acquiring the language through ton of pure immersion and lots of reading.

Ofcourse i haven’t memorised all the vocab yet but have comprehensively gone through them to qualify myself for a comprehensible input. Downloaded infographic pics and recorded each single word via TTS to recall vocab.

Now finally at the stage where most end up at. Knowing each word but cant catch most of it when listening to jlpt n4 listening test. Rewinding and rewinding, fast pace conversations, reading the transcript is taking a toll and a confidence buster. The amount of time i am taking to understand one question of 1 minute conversation is tremendous and the entire test is more than 30 mins long. With this turtle pace, i wont reach the destination in time.

What i have thought to do now is just to passively immerse and let brain and ears get use to the rhthym and sounds, just like a baby heavily immersing ,in my case atleast my brain would anchor to some words that i have been playing back in recordings i made . As currently intensively decoding everything is sure not fun and taxing. After this extensive passively listening would dive into active listening

I am a strong believer of naturally acquiring a language through ton of listening and consuming the media, given the fact English is my second language too and because i leaned on towards it more than my native tongue, hence now it is somewhat native to me.

I would eventually get functional in Japanese as well thanks to Kanji which makes me wana decode all the words and in process would get familiarise with the functional vocab but my current situation is more like a challenge to rapidly learn the language and if it wasnt for JLPT i wouldnt be studying tons. Plus this challenging factor is the only motivation, like i have purposefully pushed myself into a prison to figure out to escape and adamant about it. Like playing a game which doesnt lead to a conclusion “GAME OVER”.

To ease off the pressure, have embraced the thought if not soon but eventually. Those who have learned the language and have not acquired over the years, especially if have gone through what i am going. Keen to hear advise from your personal experience and recommendations to kill the listening demon

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Are you asking about how to effectively study for the JLPT? If you’re sitting for N4, you need to get up to Wanikani level 27 to cover 100% of the kanji or at least through level 11 to get a passing grade. For grammar and vocab, most people seem to do fine with Genki I and II. You can then supplement with graded readers, like yomujp.

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I have absolutely no clue what you want. Would someone translate This Wall of Text into one or two short and easy to understand Sentences?

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As mentioned by catwithcookies, you can target N4 Kanji using Wanikani.
JLPT is not only or particularly focused on Kanji so a lot of other study is usually needed.
There is plenty of material targeted towards the JLPT - it is easy to get overwhelmed.

Genki text books have already been mentioned.
If you can afford it, italki tutors are good.

Two other resources -
for N5/N4, irodori is free and great!
Udemy also has courses focused on N4 and other levels, and they run regular sales so that a 10+ hour course is not so expensive there.

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It seems like you’re mainly talking about listening ability. I think focusing on listening ability specifically for JLPT isn’t very useful, it’s better to focus on improving your general comprehension and then do some specific JLPT study right before the test.
I failed N4 due to a bad listening score last year and that pushed me to focus a lot more on it (I hadn’t focused on it at all beforehand). Sometimes it was like you said, I understood the words in the sentence but didn’t understand how they fit together because my general comprehension was low. I don’t think pure passive listening is so helpful, you need to at least try a little bit to understand and comprehend what you’re listening to. Find stuff you’re interested in which you don’t need 100% comprehension to understand, watch/listen to it, and keep going, you’ll improve a lot. I think early on JP subtitles are helpful if your general comprehension is low, because it acts as a bridge allowing you to get more comprehension out of TV shows and movies which are more interesting than simple learner-aimed material. However, there is also plenty of learner-focused videos on Youtube, podcasts, etc, if you want recommendations for that kind of content, plenty of people here can help you with that probably. Regardless, if you spend hundreds of hours listening to Japanese and trying to understand what you’re listening to, looking up things sometimes, getting used to the flow, you’ll improve, simple as that really. Just keep going.

Full on intensive listening can be tiring, and full extensive listening when your comprehension is low isn’t so useful. Find the balance that works for you and put lots of time into it

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Honestly maybe it’s because I’m tired today but I also gave up reading a couple paragraphs in.

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If you have a non-optional N4 coming up, I think your methods might be too passive.

While consuming native, interesting media and hoping that our brain catches on would be ideal, the time commitment that it takes becomes less viable the older we get. Both due to reducing neuroplasticity, and simply because kids have fewer responsibilities.

Using an SRS source can be a huge help, ideally with an audio component to train recognition by ear.

Getting started with reading and listening are difficult steps that require you to just put in the hours.

Rewatching things was useful to me. I rewatched the Aggretsuko show a bunch of times with Japanese subs. The show is funny, very short, and is at least a little bit more grounded in every-day language than a shounen anime.

Doing WK meant that seeing the associated kanji was a big boost in understanding. After that, I only listened to the audio while doing chores around the house. I was also doing BunPro, so it also made me recognise grammar I was learning.

Also, be careful not to take those lists as gospel, there is no set curriculum for JLPT vocab, so the test may well deviate.

Doing as many full practice tests as you can might also be helpful. Then use your errors as guidance on grammar and vocab to learn.

In the end, all you can do is relentlessly put in the time and effort that it takes, I’m afraid.

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Most learners don’t get to this stage for the record. Most stop when it starts getting hard and requires more work than simply wanting to learn the language.

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When it’s about listening comprehension for N4, I’m wondering if you did the N5 and how well you did with the listening comprehension in that one. But my guess is that you skipped the N5 exam? If that’s the case, I would start with N5 listening exercises and tests, there are plenty on youtube. If you already have the vocab and grammar for N4, the vocab and grammar for N5 should be settled and considered easy by now, so starting listening here would be useful.

Personally, I don’t see much benefit from truly passive listening (having something on loop in the background) and don’t think adding subtitles are great for training listening comprehension (they might enhance understanding, but that’s mostly from reading comprehension).

Some low stakes soft immersion to get a feel for how japanese sounds and chunks can help a lot. That would be “watching anime with first language subtitles while trying to listen for words and structures you recognize” or watching an interesting video which will be fun to watch even if you don’t understand a thing (but still try to listen for stuff you might understand) or something similar.

But again, what I recommend the most, especially if you’re trying for N4 soon, is to watch videos that are geared towards N5 level until you get the hang of it and then switch to N4 level. This won’t be native content, obviously, but that can come later, fter your exams.

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When I mention hobby learning Japanese, a few of my friends have said “oh yeah, I tried learning it too!”… but then when I try and chat more, they admitted to only learning the kana. It’s been a massive investment of time so I really don’t blame them, just funny to me that I had a similar conversation at least twice haha!

OP- I might not be that far yet either, so I’m not the advice you were looking for, but I would say you’re doing great :grin:

I listen to Nihongo Con Tepei for beginners. If you have Spotify, he’s great. Most episodes have a topic that he briefly describes. I personally like when he simply explains different words that I might not know - I try and infer what it means based on the descriptions he gives.

My biggest recommendation though is CIJ ( Comprehensible Japanese ). It’s a great investment for an immersion-heavy study style! Personally, even the free version is helping me connect Japanese words with actual concrete things rather than the English equivalents. Start lower than you think and use subtitles, the visual cues should be enough :blush:

Also also: regarding immersion-only method. If you go on the CIJ forum, quite a few people are doing that already, but they’ve spent like THOUSANDS of hours just to get to N4 :sweat_smile:… so if you don’t want to wait 8-10 years to achieve N1, doing a mix of active and passive learning will be key

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Huh, in my decade ish of learning and being in communities, I don’t think I’ve ever actually seen an immersion only learner…assuming we are thinking of the same things.

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I just took a look at the forum and there seems to even be people who don’t learn the kana explicetly but just listen to the video and look at the transcript to somehow learn to read? :sweat_smile: Or maybe I misunderstood?

Not that I’m in the habit of criticizing how others like to learn, I’m just amazed how differently people approache learning and this one is a first :sweat_smile: Hope they’ll have an enjoyable path and reach their goal :slight_smile:

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I wish one day i could write complex japanese as i did for the English

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honestly i think this is rather a more fruitful way to learn the language. Listen and read whats being said, thanks for informing that others went about doing the same thing

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The commitment of people who do that is insane. I think most study the basics and then proceed to listen to podcasts 6hrs/ a day, but like @Chimmsen said, the CIJ forum has some DEDICATED people haha

@YukaSato1 the main problem with full immersion, is that even toddlers have an adult to guide their language learning. Like, explaining new words, helping them learn how to effectively communicate, reading and writing, etc. So saying “immersion is enough” is a little short sighted :sweat_smile::sweat_smile:

EVERYONE has to be taught reading and writing, that’s why illiteracy in adulthood still exists in every language (I mean, even some native Japanese people struggle with a few “common”-ish kanji)

But if you’re an adult, you normally have to use guided study to accomplish that. Most native adults of ANY language don’t have the time to help as much as a learner would need (without being paid for it.)

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the reason i opted out of listening n5 is because the conversation is really slow paced and i might get accustomed to it in a way that later on my brain wouldnt quickly process the face pace conversation of n4 and would want the baby steps of feeding one word at a time, also the the more extensive vocab of n4 wont be flashed back for it to retain in my memory .

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i found something similar like toduku graded readers which have YouTube videos along with subtitles and they even start from level 0. that was my way to go but when i came across the word lipstick, i was like i dont need that word for JLPT hence totally shifted to past papers.

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So you have no problem with the N5 listening exercises but with the N4 ones? Your vocab and grammar is already N4 ready and you don’t rely on the kanji to understand words? Than it’s just more N4 listening practice until it sticks, otherwise it’s about fixing the other issues.

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Check out CIJs free content, see if they help you work up. Maybe level 15 would be a good point to start for you? It’s definitely helped me understand faster paced content even though they speak slowly and often repeat themselves. It’s about making these words mean the concept and not your native language equivalent.

i.e. りんご→🍎、not りんご→apple

When listening, aim to understand, not translate. Don’t use the videos for new vocab study, just listen/ watch without subtitles. After a while faster paced stuff will click bc you aren’t “code switching” anymore. A good rule of thumb i found in that forum, is choosing material you understand 85%-95% of with effort and take the next step up when it becomes easy.

Bunpro also has free practice tests too. You can just do the N4 listening sections

Sorry, I know I’m not the person you were asking the advice from! This has just been actively working for me and I’ve been making steady progress with it. If this doesn’t match your goals dw. Just listening to N4 stuff until it sticks like @Chimmsen said works too :blush:

頑張っていきましょう☆

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That’s a bit misleading btw, fun fact: there are only 5 kanjis between level 16 and 27 that are for N4. So you just need level 16 and then a few kanjis on Anki (which is what I do for N4)
It would actually be faster to do everything on Anki, Wanikani is not the fastest method to study kanjis or vocab

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