Exceptions to exceptions to ru-verbs

Japanese Language Grammar
#1

Hey guys,

first and foremost, sorry if this is already a topic somewhere!

I’m working on understanding verbs and some basic conjugation.

I’ve learned what makes a verb an u-verb and what makes a verb a ru-verb. I’ve also learned that there are exceptions to this like:

入る 【はいる】 – to enter

Which is an u-verb despite having an “I” based hiragana before the “ru”.

I couldn’t help but notice all the exceptions tend to be written in kanji so as to NOT actually have an “I” based hiragana before the “ru”.

My questions is: Are there any ru-verbs that are written in this same way? (kanji+ru)

Thanks for the help as always!

#2

There are some, like 居る (usually written in kana though), 見る, and 煮る, to name a few.

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#3

I think you meant kana :wink:

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#4

得る、寝る as well, to give you a sample of verbs with the 〜える ending. All of these mentioned are two syllable verbs in the 辞書形, so one mora ‘in the kanji’, but this is no hard and fast rule. I usually end up correct if I assume these kinds of verbs are godan (conjugate like -u ending verbs). It helps that you often see them in conjugated form, if you encounter them in the wild, instead of learning from a list.

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#5

This is what I get for typing in a frenzy while I should be doing work.

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#6

Strictly speaking, what makes an う-verb and what makes a る-verb is how they conjugate. The fact that you can spot them with the ～いる／～える trick is just a recongition trick, not a definition trick.

Unfortunately, the fact of the matter is, no matter how you sort the verbs, there’s always going to be exceptions - verbs that look to be in one group but are actually in the other. Golden rule in Japanese: All Rules Have Exceptions (inlcuding this one).

If you feel like just getting into things and mucking about, here’s a list of all verbs in Japanese (“class 1” = う, “class 2” = る)

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#7

I also use this rule with the okurigana as a hint, it works really well except of course for 2-mora verbs.
I also made a post about it before, here
(The only real exception apart from the short verbs I know is 交じる, which is sadly a u-verb)
I checked the list from Balthazar’s link, and apart from some verbs wrongly labeled godan (滅びる and 隠れる for example), I found 脂ぎる (possibly from 脂切る but I don’t have confirmation), 臥せる, and 抓める (all u-verbs/ godan).
Also some verbs that end in -iru/-eru that didn’t have any kanji when I checked 大辞林:
のめる, せびる, そべる, とちる

#8

I can’t wrap my head around this ru/u thing. Why can’t every resource just teach them as ichidan and godan? :confounded:

#9

う／る is still better than group 1 / group 2. Like, how am I supposed to tell from that name which is which?

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#10

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