Doggy Detectives! Week 2 Discussion 🐶

Phew, glad about that :sweat_smile:

I think your answer is a much better explanation than mine, I probably should be in bed by now, so maybe not making the most sense :joy:

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I think I’ve got the gist of page 12 (so I’m thrilled, and thanks for the extra time), but I got a little dazzled by the plentiful はs in the sentence: そのへんな顔の犬は鼻はいいかね

… what are the はs doing? Is the は after 犬 marking the topic? Are both of the はs? (For all I know, that’s a thing–or an indication of a character speaking and stumbling–“As for your dog–I mean, as for his nose–” … maybe like that?) And if one or the other isn’t marking a topic, what’s it doing?

Fingers crossed!

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Page 12

From ichi.moe (a very good site for parsing sentences and understanding parts of speech):

Annotation 2020-04-15 125512

So I would suggest that the は after 犬 is the second type, indicating a contrast (unstated) with other breeds of dogs, while the は after 鼻 is the first type, marking the topic of いいかね?.

As for that strange-faced dog (compared to other breeds), the nose is good, isn’t it?

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I was going to wave my hands around and say it was making it “adjectivey”, but I tried looking up ことに and found a first meaning of particularly; unusually, which fits perfectly - so I think this might be something like

“and particularly mysteriously… there is nobody who saw the culprit etc. etc.

(@nienque)

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Thanks @ChristopherFritz and @Radish8, I just love it when a sentence makes complete, absolute grammatical sense :drooling_face:

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I thought this link was a really good explanation of ことに as a set grammatical point. It also links to two other links that are useful on the same grammar point. These also explain why there is a な after ふしぎ:

Link 1

Link 2

In the context of the sentence starting ふしぎなことに, I think there are lots of translations as there are lots of definitions of ふしぎ! But I translated as mysteriously, strangely, or amazingly.

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Ah, I was wondering about that aspect of the construction. Thank you - I hadn’t seen these two links. I particularly like the example sentences in the second (and japanesetest4you is always great at giving succint explanations of how to construct things).

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Page 14

Here was a trickier sentence and how I think it works. For me the main thing was needing to understand the difference between はず and はずなのに and I’ve linked to the two sources I found helpful. はず came up lots in the previous books, presumably because if you are a sleuth doing some deducing, saying that something was to be expected is useful grammar!

玄関には金山さんがいたから、だれかが入ってくれば、すぐにわかったはずなのにな。

玄関には金山さんがいたから - Because Ms Kaneyama was in the entranceway

だれかが入ってくれば - if someone came entering

すぐに - straight away

わかった - known

はず - expresses that something is/was supposed to be (Tae Kim link)

はずなのに - expresses that something is/was supposed to be, but things haven’t worked out as expected - (it is supposed to be, but…) - (Maggie Sensei link explains this use)

な - sentence ender, means something like, “you know”

So putting it all together:

Because Ms Kaneyama was in the entranceway, if someone came in you would have expected her to know, but…(she didn’t notice anyone).

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I think your Maggie Sensei link is broken in some way? :thinking:

Anyway, nice breakdown!

I wanted to add a (hopefully useful / interesting) point:

なのに on its own means “and yet; despite this”. Thus you could interpret はずなのに literally as something like “despite this expectation”.

I read this sentence as following on from the previous - to paraphrase, “nobody saw the culprit” . Thus this sentence added to that, by effectively saying (super paraphrased) “nobody saw the culprit… despite the fact that Kaneyama was in the foyer, so you would have expected anybody coming in to have been noticed immediately”. Except with Japanese word order :grin:

Anyway, just thought knowing the meaning of なのに individually might add to people’s understanding.

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Fixed! :grin:

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Hi everyone! I caught up (more or less), and will try and take some notes along reading in a post. Note that I basically know nothing, so don’t rely on me as a source of any info, BUT if you want to correct anything - feel free, I’ll be very grateful:)

Question though: how to make furigana? Can I use that code (?) to make small explaining texts at the top of symbols?
Question 2: is it ok to use the dots for parsing?
unrelated question: how to make small text?x)

Page 12.
Row 1 - そこ・に・でてきた・の・は・、警視庁・の・黒星・けいぶ・だ。

As I understood: There (from the police car?) appeared Police Department’s inspector Kuroboshi. I learned そこ today so that was cool.

Row 2: 犬・が・すき・で、ポメラニアンをかっている。
As I understood:Kuboroshi has a beloved pomeranian dog.

Row 3: 以前、おれ・が・その・ポメラニアン・を・訓練して

In the past, I trained that pomeranian(and what a cutie that dog is awwwwww)

Row 4: 逆立ち・が・できる・ように・した・こと・が・ある。それ・以来・の・顔見知り・だ。

Lost here a bit. The dog was able to do handstands in order to こと・が・ある(?) Since then they (Spitz, the dog and the けいぶ?) were acquainted.

Row 5: 「おや、そこ・に・いる・の・は・スピッツくん・じゃないか。いいところ・へきた。

Hey, isn:t (the jp layout special symbols confuse me…) that Spitz over there? Just when I need him.

Row 6: その・へん・な・顔・の・犬・は・鼻・は・いい・か・ね?」
Finding 鼻 required some scrolling to do. Unusual reading?
As I understood (spoiler, I didn:t): That:s weird (to meet) that face, whose dog has good smell, doesn:t it? OR 「this strange-faced fog has good smell, right?」But then wow, rude. And apparently that is the right way to translate it? M, alrightshrug

Row 7:「けいぶ。ブラッドハウンド・の・鼻・は・世界いい一・です。(I’ll cut it here)

Officer (no -san, is that ok?0-0). Bloodhound:s nose is the best in the world.

Row 7-8: 二十五・メートル・プール・に・おとした・ー滴・の・インク・の・におい・が・わかるって・くらい・です・よ。」
As I understood:To an extent that they can find the smell of 1 inkdrop poured in a 25 meter pool. - so many words stacked up on each other woah

Row 9: 「それ・は、すばらしい。ちょいと・たすけて・くれん・か・ね?」
I noticed that his speaking style is much less formal, right?
Translation: That:s awesome! Will/Can? you help me here for a second?

Last one: おやおや、へん・な・ぐあい・に・なってきた・ぞ。
I think that is 「Woah, and in these strange circumstances I became (=so I did.)」
That was fun:) Probably won’t do this for every page because it’s time-consuming, but my comprehension is much better when writing everything down.

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Great effort! Thanks for sharing your translations. I think this sentence is more like He’s a dog lover, and he keeps a Pomeranian.

Previously I trained that Pomeranian to do handstands. Since then we’ve been acquainted (him and Kuroboshi).

The first part all modifies the word dog, so it’s: That strange faced dog, does it have a good nose?

I read this one as My goodness, there’s been a strange event (circumstance).

That’s my thoughts anyway, always happy to be corrected myself!

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It’s some slightly complicated markup, let me see… 全員ぜんいん

Okay, if you click ‘reply’ to this post and then click ‘quote whole post’ (top left) you should be able to see that, but essentially…

<ruby><rb>kanji here</rb><rt>furigana here</rt></ruby>

Don’t see why not!

全員test?

Again, don’t see why not! Not sure it’s necessary where there’s a comma? That would be my only feedback :grin:

Like so: <small>teeny text here!</small>

teeny text here!

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Thanks for the tips!i can’t remember the furigana one for the life of me

Yeah you’re right xD At some point I just started doing them on autopilot lmao

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If you’re ok installing user scripts, there’s a handy one to make writing furigana slightly easier - with it installed you type <kanji>[furigana] then click a button!

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I thought it might be helpful to add a perspective from the other direction to this as well. If you did want to describe a “well-liked dog” or more likely “favourite dog”, you would probably write it 好きな犬.


I wanted to pick up on a small grammar point from page 12 too, as I don’t think it has come up yet in questions. The first sentence introduces the topic as:

そこにでてきたのは

の can be used as a stand-in for a noun, essentially becoming a generic noun placeholder. In this case it is being modified / described by the relative clause そこにでてきた - (そこ・に・でてきた) - so we’re talking about a [noun] that appeared ‘there’.

The latter half of the sentence then reveals that the one who has appeared is Kuroboshi.

You see this exact usage again just a couple of sentences later, when Kuroboshi exclaims at seeing Spitz there.

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Page 14!

This page is TOUGH. I lost track of any grammar things I sort of figured out in the previous pages because I felt so confused lol
(I hope someone has the time to answer at least some of the questions, I’ll be very grateful! Sadly I didn’t manage to learn anything in preparation or the book so here we are…)

Hiding here so no one has to scroll much I guess??? The post is a bit long.

Row 1:「ここ・は・お金持ち・で・有名・な・金山さん・の・屋敷・だ。cutting here
What I got: here is the residence of rich and famous Kaneyama. However, お金持ち IS a noun, sooo I:m a bit confused?

Row 1-2: ついさっき、応接間・に・あった・金魚ばち・が・こわされて、なか・に・金魚・が・ぬすまれたんだ。
Intimidating… Let:s try: A little while ago the goldfish bowl from the parlour was broken, and the goldfish was stolen from the inside. What is あった here?:0 And is なか the hiragana for 中 here?Is んだ a part of the conjugation? So many questions here xD If someone answered similar ones, I:ll edit them out.

Row 3(and a bit of 4): だが、ふしぎ・な・こと・に・犯人・を・見た・もの・は・いない。玄関・に・は・金山さん・が・いたから,
Alright, sooo "And yet, no one saw this (こと?) mysterious criminal. The meaning of that past after the dot remained a mystery for me:(

Row 4: だれか・が・入ってくれば、すぐに・わかった・はず・なのに・な。」
Lost again. Someone entered and understood what to do?

Row 5-6: 「へえー、つまり・だれも・入れない・はず・の・部屋・から、金魚・だけ・ぬすまれ・ちゃったん・です・か?」
As I understood: “Ehh, to sum it up, no one left the room, but the goldfish got stolen anyway?” Ahhh this is so hard, I hope the sentences won:t get more complicated:( Am not ready haha

Row 7: なんだか、おもしろそうな・話・だ。
What is おもしろそうな? Couldn’t find any inflections like that.

Aaaaand the last one: でも、金魚・を・とる・泥棒・なんて・うる・かなあ。

But I wonder if the goldfish was stolen by a burglar to be sold? (うる)like other things???

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I agree it was a tougher page, well done for ploughing through it!

I’m not sure why you are breaking the page down by rows, generally I think it’s easier to break down by sentences. I presume you know that a this symbol 。is the Japanese equivalent of a full stop?

Here was my breakdown of one of the sentences you found difficult from earlier in this thread.

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I’m not good at explanining grammar, but I’ll try answering some of your questions.

I think it is the past form of “ある”, so it is 応接間にあった金魚ばち = the goldfish bowl that was in the parlor

応接間にあった is describing the goldfish bowl

Yes, i think it is. なかの金魚 = the goldfish inside

I don’t know how to explain it, so I’ll just link the bunpro article :wink:

I would second this translation. The part, that comes after the dot belongs to the next sentence:

玄関には金山さんがいたから、
Ms. Kaneyama, who was at the entrance/front door

だれかがはいってくれば、
if someone comes in

すぐに わかった
immediately discovered

はずなのにな。
is supposed to be

So: If someone came in, Ms. Kaneyama, who was at the front door, would have discovered him immediately.

Close. Not “left”, but “entered the room”

It comes from おもしろ - interesting. The “そう” is explained here.

I would translate this as But what kind of a thief steals a goldfish?
But I don’t really know how to explain this :see_no_evil:

I hope I could at least help a little bit

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Yeah, it was tough - I considered devoting two days to that page as well, but we weren’t exactly awash with questions :grin:

Do remember to check through the thread before posting to see if any of your questions have already been answered :slightly_smiling_face: I like the details tag, it makes it much easier for people scrolling past :+1:

To answer your question about the こと part too - we had a bit of a discussion about that part further up the thread. And definitely check out the post that Micki linked - there’s a really good breakdown there.

To add to Atani’s explanation above - this part is tricky!

The latter part of the sentence, 部屋から、金魚だけ ぬすまれちゃったんですか (never trust Japanese commas), is kind of the ‘core’. You pretty much had it. It says something like “so only the goldfish was (regrettably) stolen from the room?” The だけ here means only - cos it’s kind of weird to break into a room and steal only a goldfish :wink:

Then at the beginning we have へえー、つまり, just meaning “ehh, in other words” as you surmised.

Then we have だれも入れないはずの describing the room (部屋) from which the goldfish was stolen. As we discussed for the other sentence, はず means something like “expectation”. だれも入れない is a relative clause modifying はず. It means “nobody is able to enter”. So we have an “expectation that nobody is able to enter” or “it should be the case that nobody can get in”.

The room is “of” this expectation - in other words “a room which nobody should be able to enter”.

So all together: “ehh, so in other words, from this room which nobody should be able to get into, the goldfish alone was stolen?”

You have a typo there - it’s いるかなあ at the end.

Atani pretty much has it. I’d translate it more literally as something like “is there really such a thing as a burglar who steals goldfish?”.

金魚をとる is a relative clause describing 泥棒 - “a robber who steals goldfish / robbers who steal goldfish”.

なんて is a funny word but here means “such things as; such like”.

Then we have いる (to be / exist) and the questioning かなあ.

So it’s “are there really such things as… burglars who steal goldfish”.

You will see a lot of relative clauses! They can make sentences feel much more complicated, but I can promise you’ll very quickly get a lot better at spotting them and understanding them.

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