獣の奏者 chapter 1, part 3 discussion

Well I think I’m probably wrong about this. :sweat_smile: I felt like he should have said it in a way that more clearly specified the danger to Erin versus the bees. :man_shrugging:

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Well, I think he just wants to describe the general behavior and nature of the bees: That they are quite peaceful but can become aggressive when they get excited. This description has nothing to do with the specific situation and Erin, in my eyes.

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To me it seems to be directly in response to what she did.

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Illustration for this section

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Sure, that’s his reason to say it, but what he says exactly (that’s what I referred to with “this description”) is general.

Example:

A description that has to do with the specific situation and Erin: “When you tease the bees, they will sting you.”

A description that has nothing to do with the specific situation and Erin: “When bees get teased, they will sting.”

I think what he says is in the style of the latter phrase.

Well, Japanese is also a lot more passive than English, so it may just be the natural way to say it. :man_shrugging:

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I’m pretty sure it just means the bees risking their life and attacking. :thinking:
Can’t read it in any other way. If I want to make a grammatical reasoning: “命がけ”, the で here indicates the means by which an action is performed, the action is obviously 襲ってくる, the subject of which is also obvious. Bees are very well known to risk their lives when attacking, because after all they die, so it also makes sense contextually. If it was the other way around it would have been written differently.

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That’s also what I was thinking reading through the discussion. +1 :stuck_out_tongue:

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Yes :slight_smile:

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Finally read this last night. I was tired and told myself I’d just read a page or two, but then somehow I finished the chapter. I don’t think this book is easy–there are often times I have to pause and really think about what a sentence is saying–but when I get to a point of understanding a sentence I always want to read the next one. I am not at a level high enough to do any sort of literary analysis (my goal is to get meaning, and oh man if I can catch some nuance that is a plus), but something about the way this is written in terms of sentence formation etc is very appealing to me. Also, I love ジョウン so far. (エリン, too, but ジョウン’s kindness and humor are really warming my heart.)

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I completely agree. I’m certainly not qualified to judge the quality of Japanese writing. But at the same time, I feel like I can easily say this is the best written of the books I’ve read so far.

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Has anyone found any rhyme or reason behind sentences mixing て-form and the 連用形? For example: 手斧を振り上げて、蜜蜂が群れていないあたりに振り下ろし、あっというまに枝を叩き切ってしまった。. Is there a rule against using 連用形 twice in one sentence or is it just a stylistic choice? Or something else entirely?

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I found this post, and although I‘m far from understanding it all :sweat_smile:, I think the author says that’s the best way to write it? (「c. がいちばん適当だと言えると思います」)

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The post you linked was really helpful, and is something I’ll be thinking about when I see stuff like this in the future, thank you! I did a very quick and dirty translation, if that might help you at all in turn. (Apologies for inevitable typos and more general mistakes.)

Summary

(Grammar) The differences between [verb conjunctive form] and [て-form]

(1) In comparison to [~て, …], it’s a ‘stiffer’ expression. In other words, it’s typical of written speech.
(2) In comparison to [~て, …], it is a stronger way of dividing up what comes before it and after it.

For example, embellishing a bit on the sentence「東京へ行き、コンサートを見てきた。」, we’ll add the phrase「電車に乗る」.

a. 電車に乗って、東京へ行って、コンサートを見てきた。
b. 電車に乗り、東京へ行って、コンサートを見てきた。
c. 電車に乗って、東京へ行き、コンサートを見てきた。
d. 電車に乗り、東京へ行き、コンサートを見てきた。

First off, in terms of Japanese, b. clearly doesn’t match up.

In the case of considering these three actions,「電車に乗る」「東京へ行く」and「コンサートを見(てく)る」, if we’re thinking that the actions are simply lining up in a row, a. or d. could be fine.

(a. gives a bit of a feel of a child’s composition, though.)

Because「電車に乗る」expresses how「東京へ行く」, 「に乗って」could be rephrased simply as で. In that case, the connection between the first two actions is stronger, and those two can be thought of as continuing on to what comes after them, the part「コンサートを見る」.

Consequently, it’s good to have the first two connected by て-form, and the latter two interrupted by the conjunctive, so I think you can say that c. is the most suitable (choice). (Furthermore, in this case, the comma following the て could be thought of as being better off not there. → 「電車に乗って東京へ行き、コンサートを見てきた。」)

So the 動詞連用形 (in our case 振り下ろし) makes for a stronger break between what comes before it and what comes after it, in contrast to て-form (in our case 振り上げて). Based on the content of @seanblue’s sentence, that feels like it makes sense to me, though it’s not quite as clear-cut as in the example from the post you linked.

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This chapter and the previous one had a lot of info on bees and I’m wondering if it will somehow become relevant in the future (or maybe the author is just a bee enthusiast?).
Also wondering how things will develop since I somehow doubt this is the kind of story where the main character simply finds a new family and lives happily ever after taking care of bees P: (though I’d probably still read that).

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I would also read that. It’s very soothing reading about Erin and John settling into their new life together. :heart:

So far the bees were… imperative? Or at least played a role in curing Erin of her fever/infection/thing. They have poison, Erin wants to learn about poison. Other than that I have nothing. :stuck_out_tongue:

I do not really believe there is deeper meaning behind the bees, but I like surprises!

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I was also thinking about where the story might be going while reading this part today. We’re finally caught up (more or less) to where I stopped when this club was announced so I don’t have any actual knowledge about what’s to come. As @seanblue mentioned, this does contain spoilers for chapter 2, part 1 so don’t read if you haven’t read that part yet.

Predictions (Spoilers for chapter 2 part 1)

Specifically I was wondering how what John is teaching Erin about bees and instrument making will come into play later on. Maybe it will be combined with what her mother taught her about the 闘蛇 (and the forbidden technique she saw her mother use) and she’ll be able to control them both with her voice and instruments. Specifically, John thought her voice was impressive and she also took a strong interest in instrument making. Not to mention she’s always been interested in animals.

Also, I wonder if John was born into a wealthy/powerful family and is in some sort of exile. His collection of books doesn’t seem normal both in size and content. And how many people learn something like instrument making in their spare time. When he said the books are the sort that a 16 year old would use in a some type of specialized school, I took that to be him talking from experience and that they’re actually his old school books.

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FYI this is (now) a two week old thread, so I think maybe you’re spoiling stuff?

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Whoops, this is what I get for not double checking the thread title. :man_facepalming:

Yay, another chapter with no questions.

P.S. I really like this phrase for some reason: 心底びっくりした

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