本好きの下剋上: Volume 4+ discussion thread

Same :durtle_hello:

oho :eyes: Sounds like I have something to look forward to :eyes: :sparkles:

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You might want to put a lot more of what you wrote behind spoiler tags.

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Noooo, posted a draft by mistake :scream: thanks !

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I loved how シャルロッテ goes through an entire character arc in that chapter :joy:
From being really motivated and ambitious, to having her ambitions be crushed again and again, and ultimately be left in a state of awe toward ローゼマイン.
I wonder how things will be, when she also goes to the 貴族院.

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About 30% into book 11 - spoilers

The section talking about magical attributes that a person can naturally use was both intriguing and hilarious. The line where マイン is thinking about a theoretical 魔剣 that scolds people that is actually just the 神官長 was so funny. And then even funnier when it turned out to happen for real! It also reminds me (at surface level) of Nightblood from some Brandon Sanderson novels, since Nightblood is similarly a sword that came to life from magic. The similarities will probably end at that though!

The intriguing part is mostly that this type of aptitude for specific types of magic exists to begin with. It’s not something I’d particularly thought about in the past. But in retrospect, it was hinted at at the end of book 7. When マイン did her 祝福 at the end of book 7, 神官長達 commented afterward about how a 祝福 like that (praying to so many gods at once) shouldn’t be possible, but presumably that implied that マイン had aptitude for many of the types of magic. Nice foreshadowing! It also makes me wonder how many attributes 神官長 or ジルヴェスター have aptitude for. Since the one older brother had four, I have to imagine they have five or six perhaps. But given their surprise with マイン, they probably don’t have as many as she does.

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Not a question: volume 6, ~21%

So this part says, 監禁(かんきん) “confinement” is worse in マイン’s situation compared to 誘拐(ゆうかい) “kidnapping” because she gets sick easily (just like when she was in the “reflection room”), and while the act of kidnapping her might not be easy, keeping her alive/ok while hiding her away is definitely not easy :eyes:

I was a bit confused at first, but I think it makes sense now :smiley: posts the post anyway

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That’s what I like to see!

Regarding your comment, I love the fact that she is insanely weak physically. I feel like just breathing on her a bit too hard would make her faint :rofl:

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I keep trying to write a proper reply, but I always feel like I’m indirectly spoiling something due to wording. (I try to be careful in general, but reply to you specifically makes me feel extra nervous :sweat_smile:) So, err, yes, :+1:

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I appreciate you holding back. If I got detailed responses to all my posts in this thread, I’d probably stop posting.

I do have something that’s been confusing me that I should ask about though…

question about setting (book 11)

So as usual, please refrain from going into too much detail if you respond.

Book 11 has been talking about 領地 and 他領 a lot. I’m only 35% or so into the book, but it’s come up when talking about ジルヴェスター’s wife coming from another place (I don’t remember the phrasing), as well as the possibility of マイン getting married off somewhere. Stuff like this:

「それはあくまで現時点での領主の希望だろう? エーレンフェストより強い領地はいくらでもある。政治的な力が働いて、強引に縁談がまとめられる可能性がないわけじゃない」

ベンノの言葉にわたしは「それはそうですけど」と小さく呟いた。よく考えてみれば、エーレンフェスト内の地理に関しては習ったけれど、まだエーレンフェストの外に関する知識はほとんどない。側近達から国中の貴族が集まる貴族院での順位が真ん中辺りと聞いただけだ。ベンノの心配が当たるかもしれない。

I’m just trying to understand what they mean when they talk about エレンフェスト, 領地, 他領, etc. Based on the map shown at the beginning, my understanding has always been that エレンフェスト includes all the other ギーベ. There happens to be the main part at the center (the 直轄地), but they are all a part of the same country named エレンフェスト. Am I understanding that correctly? When they are talking about 領地 are they talking about the entire country including the ギーベ? Or are they saying that many of the ギーベ are stronger? (That last sentence above is throwing me off.) Up until now everything has made it seem like everyone looks to ジルヴェスター as the seat of power. I know they’ve talked about political shakeups as early as book 4 from the 神殿, but I can’t even tell if they’re worried about a political shakeup within the country (as has been discussed in the past) resulting in マイン getting married off to someone in another ギーベ. Or a thing with another country itself. I thought it was clear from earlier in the book that ジルヴェスター’s wife came from a neighboring country (alliance by marriage basically), but now my confusion elsewhere is even making me second guess that. It wouldn’t really make sense if the preparation of making the new company for the paper/book making was to allow them to follow マイン to a new country (rather than just a region of the country), but I suppose anything is possible. Hence my confusion.

Related to this, I don’t even know if the person who attacked マイン in (I think) book 6 (when they were going around for that one yearly thing) and again in book 7 was from another country or another ギーベ.

Anyway, if it’s possible to clear that up in a spoiler-free way, that would be really helpful… if you think avoiding spoilers would be too hard, I can just keep reading for now. (Feel free to only answer some aspects of what I asked if you think that would help avoid spoilers. Like if the wife came from another ギーベ or another country and if they are saying エレンフェスト is weak compared to the surrounding countries or if the 直轄地 is weak compared to some of the ギーベ.)

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This is all stuff that would have been explained (or at least been implied) in earlier books, so this shouldn’t spoil you.

Spoiler for (I think) volume 8?

エレンフェスト is one of many 領地 in the country. (the capital of that duchy is also called エレンフェスト). The country itself has a different name (don’t know if this was mentioned in that volume yet, though it’s not really important anyway), which is ユルゲンシュミット. The duchy, that the kidnapper was from, is アーレンスバッハ. So another duchy, that ジルヴェスター doesn’t rule over.
His wife is from フレーベルターク, which is another duchy. you can see the border to エレンフェスト on the map.
So, エレンフェスト is not a country, but one of many duchies.

I believe they mention this somewhere in book 10, but maybe it is in 11? エレンフェスト is about in the middle of all the duchies.

Other countries aren’t mentioned, aside from 神官長 suspecting she is a spy from another country in volume 5.

Oh, and the ギーベ are landowning nobles within エレンフェスト. They are not from other countries (unless due to marriage to an エレンフェスト noble).

Maybe this helped? Otherwise Naphthalene can add/correct me :sweat_smile:

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On that note, while I could get through volume 15 without issues, there was this one part, where a character start to talk about how their ancestors are related to some other characters ancestors and eventually I completely lost track of what was being said :sweat_smile:
“Wait, who are we even talking about right now? Who is this??

Luckily, they include a family tree later on, so I didn’t have to reread that part.

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@Jiell answered pretty much everything, I think, except for one thing:
Volume 6: The suspected bad guy is a ギーべ from エレンフェスト
Volume 7: The main bad guy is a ギーべ from a neighboring 領地 (アーレンスバッハ)

About the part you mentioned: ローゼマイン could very well be married off in a different 領地 for political reasons, in which case ベンノ is ready to just move as well to keep working directly with her.

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I thought I remembered that, but I might be thinking of something else. What was the title of the chapter?
(volume 15, or maybe before)(But otherwise, yes, things get messy, especially considering you have political adoption as well… Like, if I remember correctly エグランティーヌ was adopted by her own grandfather… that has to mess with the tree structure :joy:)

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That does help, thanks!

Response / clarification (still spoilers up to volume 11 - 35%)

I did see those on the map. I just thought those were the country borders, hence my confusion. I’m honestly not that familiar with historical feudal systems (never heard the term “duchy” for example), which is probably contributing to my confusion. What you’re saying does make a lot of sense to me though. After all, ジルヴェスター is called 領主, not 王 or whatever. And from other books I’ve read in similar settings (e.g. 狐笛のかなた, The Stormlight Archive), it’s not uncommon for the high-level (but not king) nobles to feud with one another.

Yeah, that was mentioned right in the part I quoted, about 35% into book 11.

Does being a ギーベ imply running one of the sub-regions denoted on the map within エレンフェスト? Or can people be ギーベ owning smaller pieces of land not denoted on the map? Is there a name for those regions denoted on the map? I keep wanting to call them ギーベ, but I don’t know if that applies to the regions or just the nobles themselves.

I also just noticed that most of the double line dash border indicators on the map say 〇〇境界門, which is the border to the other 領地 within the country, but then on the right side with the fully solid line says 国境門. So that makes a lot more sense now with the explanation you gave.


One last clarification. Do nobles from all over the entire country go to the same 貴族院 or is the 貴族院 constantly referred to up to this point just for nobles within エレンフェスト?

側近達から国中の貴族が集まる貴族院での順位が真ん中辺りと聞いただけだ。

That line from the part I just read seems to imply that it’s from all over the country, but I wanted to double check. They also mentioned putting a gag order on all of recent developments from マイン (not to mention ジルヴェスター’s mother being imprisoned), which makes a lot more sense if nobles are congregating with nobles from other 領地 at the same 貴族院, such that they’d have the opportunity to accidentally reveal that information. It wouldn’t really make sense otherwise since I don’t imagine the average noble is communicating with nobles from other 領地 outside of a place like that.

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Let me go on a wild goose chase through the wiki to see if you are supposed to know that already.

Or not, because it’s literally in the quote you gave. Yes, it’s that one. Everybody in the same place.

Well, it’s mentioned during volume 7 that ジルヴェスター is at the 領主会議 that takes place in the 中央. That’s one opportunity :stuck_out_tongue:

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These regions are called “provinces” in the english translation. Honestly don’t remember of the top of my head what they are called in japanese… I think it’s just 土地?
ギーベ are just the title of those nobles.
And it is just the places that are named on the map, as far as I know.

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I actually didn’t mean that part - Part of that was explained in one of the volumes I still read in english, so it wasn’t that confusing when the circumstances got explained a bit more.
It is really weird how she has to correct herself though :joy: my cousin… ah I mean my nephew! I have no idea what her family looks like (I just hope I am not supposed to)

What was confusing for me, was when エルブィーラ talks about being related to ブェローニカ somehow. That was during a tea party - relatively early on.
I looked for the family tree, and it is at the end of of volume 17, which I finished yesterday.
I will have to post my thoughts on that later because…

Aaaah ヒルデブラント is sooooo cute :flushed:

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Yes, that’s what they are called. I also checked the 本好き wiki to make sure.

For some reason, they also get another title, like 伯爵 (like the guy from volume 7) or 子爵 (like the guy from volume 6) or 男爵. I don’t know why both naming conventions exist at the same time.

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I know you didn’t. It’s just one example I was sure was mentioned already :joy:

Okay, so it is the one I thought. Somehow, I couldn’t find that part, so it made me second guess myself.

He is! It’s also hilarious that he confuses who is the older sister between ローゼマイン and シャルロッテ

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I finished volume 16, but since the one thing I looked forward to the most, ローゼマイン returning to 貴族院, didn’t happen, I read volume 17 right after.

volume 17 spoilers

I was wondering why he seemed to pay extra attention to シャルロッテ in ローゼマイン’s perspective, but it was because he mistook the sisters for one another :joy:
I wonder how the misunderstanding gets resolved too.
He is so adorable. Must protect at all cost.

He seems to be on the cover for the next volume, so hopefully he will appear a lot.
Though poor ジルヴェスター… even though アナスタージウス graduated, ローゼマイン will get involved with royalty again. He will get a headache for sure!

I have been wondering about the next arc too. The next logical step would be the 王宮図書館. She went from the bookroom in the temple, to the castle in エレンフェスト to the library in the 貴族院. But @Naphthalene mentioned the title for the next arc being a big spoiler, so I am sure it is not that simple.
I am also wondering if the engagement stays like this. I don’t really expect (or expected?) the story to get into romance (at least for ローゼマイン), but we will see.
(I also feel like the author gave a lot more material to ship ローゼマイン with フェルドィナンド :thinking:)

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