時をかける少女: Week 12 Discussion (Chapters 20 and 21)


#21

Sounds about right. (I think it might be one of the last chapters that is called that, or I am half confused with 聲の形)


#22

Read it! I’m not as salty about these chapters as everyone else seems to be, but damn inserting yourself into a couple’s lives like that is probably the coldest part of this.


#23

oh yeah! forgot for a second that there’s a couple more stories xD
yeah I haven’t read those, but I’m not sure I want to now :joy:


#24

So, I just checked, and 悪夢のかたち is indeed one of the last chapters of that story :+1:


#25
Chapter 20 illustration


#26

He’s like three times her size :joy:


#27

11 year olds are much bigger in the future :smile:


#28

Okay, some thoughts from Chapter 20.

Totally agree that Kazuko is well rude. She’s flustered, sure, but that’s no excuse.

Next long-winded thought

Why would you tell her about the fake memories?! I get that he’s letting her in on the time travel secret because (a) she accidentally got the ability to do it herself and (b) he likes her, but… I would be horrified if I found out all my memories of a many-years-long relationship were fake.

I would worry ever after that everything was just a lie and a hallucination, and I would feel totally violated by whoever did it to me.

I would certainly not be like “oh I like you too, apparently strange man who has planted fake memories of himself in my brain”. I mean, even more gross if you then had a relationship based on that total lie, but I’m guessing that’s not where this book is headed, so… why?!

Finally, did anyone else reading the Tsubasa Bunko edition struggle to find the last line of the chapter before realising there was a tiny amount of text on the picture page? :sweat_smile:

And… some questions!


Page 114

Quick check:

…うわさがとんだこともあった。

Is that とんだ from 富む, giving us something like ‘there was an abundance of such rumours’?


Page 116

当然ぼくのことを知っているべき人には、ぜんぶだよ。

べき人? People that should know him?

あなたは、鳥になりましたよと、暗示をあたえると、その人はほんとうに鳥になったように思う…

What is that よと and what is it doing? I can’t work out how that clause is connecting to the rest of the sentence, so it must be something critical :grin:



#29

I think it’s 飛ぶ (the rumors were flying)

Yes. He gave fake memories to all people that should know him.

“あなたは、鳥になりましたよ” と暗示をあたえると

If you give a hypnotic suggestion to someone, “you have become a bird”, then they will really believe they did.


#30

I noticed it right away, but I wondered if anyone might miss it. Well, guess I have my answer :wink:


#31

Ah, I didn’t think of 飛ぶ being used in that way!

:+1: just wanted to check as it’s the first time I’ve come across べき

foiled by commas!

Wow. I actually considered that よ was just that, but figured it must be something different with と there. Damn. I am glad we are more liberal with quotation marks in English.

Thank you!

I tend to keep my books quite folded while reading (a habit from trying to avoid bending the spines), so it literally wasn’t visible to me :joy:


#32

I do the same, I don’t want to ruin them, so I nearly missed it. But guess I have mine somewhat more open though =)


#33

Oh no I’m getting behind! Maybe I’ll read a chapter tonight.


#34

Couple of quick questions from chapter 21:


Page 120

現代の人に、たとえば、あとなん年かしたら、この国に戦争が起こりますよなんて教えてやれば、たちまち大騒ぎになってしまう。

Which verb is かしたら coming from?


Page 121

もし変えられるとすると、それを利用しようとする悪い人が出てきたり、騒ぎは大きくなるばかりだもの。

In the previous sentence, Kazuo says that it is “not possible to change history”. Is that a literal statement about the physical ability, or does he just mean that they mustn’t / it’s against the law / has bad consequences?

I’d assume the latter from context, in which case is this sentence roughly “If it were possible (legally) for [history] to be changed, bad people trying to make use of that would emerge and it would be nothing but chaos”?

Even then, I’m not totally sure whether he means people from his time period would run amok, or whether he means that people from this age would try to take advantage if they found out about it. Given the way the conversation continues and the context of not being allowed to change history, I guess the former?


I accidentally read the first page of chapter 22 too, so technically I’m actually ahead for once! :tada:


#35

It’s あと何年か+したら. したら is just する. There is a pattern with 何 + counter + か which means “a few [counter]”, in this case, “a few years” (I don’t know if you know that or not, I apologize if you do). So overall this is like If he told the people of this time that, after a few years, there would be a war in this country […].

I would say that’s about it actually being impossible to change the past. That would make the most sense since he starts the next sentence by assuming: “Even if it could be changed […]”. Also, your translation looks about right to me.

It makes most sense to me that he would be worried about people from his time changing history, but that doesn’t seem to be a worry since it’s apparently not possible. That whole idea is just conjecture on the assumption that it would be possible.


#36

Nope, I did not! I was confused about the overall meaning as a result, because I thought it was something closer to “after how many years have passed (??) will another war happen?”. Thank you!

Aah, I see. I was interpreting that sentence as “if” rather than “even if”, which rather changes the meaning. And yes, I also thought his main concern would be people from his time, but with that slight misunderstanding the whole thing just wasn’t quite fitting together logically for me.

Thank you so much! Glad I asked ^^


#37

I find it kind of unsettling just how casually he throws around the fact that his “parents” have over a decade of fake memories of a son that they never had. I feel really bad for them.

I’m not convinced his solution is very good. In the end the people who “should know us” are too many. I can just imagine a distant cousin coming to visit and being like…hey since when do you have an eleven year old child?

I guess it’s just not that deep.


#38

I’m guessing he change new people as needed? (still not a good explanation though =P )
I’ve seen similar done better, in places like Doctor Who (an alien child imposed himself in a childless couple who desperately wanted children but couldn’t have them, and in the same way planted fake memories to make them love and care for him. At least he did it unintentionally and wasn’t even aware of it himself )


#39

There’s something like that in Fate/Zero too.

For some reason I don’t think that is too messed up. Maybe I’m just a monster.


#40

Wasn’t there slightly an implication that it works a bit like mass hysteria? I seem to remember the word ‘chain reaction’ being used - I felt like the idea was that new people coming into contact with him/others who knew him would also be affected.

I find it harder to see how he will remove the memories of himself from everyone, as he can’t possibly know everyone who knows of him, but perhaps it works in a similar way???

On a similar note, I find it bizarre that the ability to jump through time is conferred by a medicine. It just feels… weird. Like it should be something you learn to do, or can do with a device. Not something that some lavender crap brings out just after you drink it.

I don’t exactly feel bad for the parents, because they don’t know now and won’t know afterwards. I find it hard to stomach that that degree of change, even if instantaneous and unknown, wouldn’t have some kind of negative effect on your psyche though.

Anyway, I agree that it’s just not that interested in exploring these things :grin: