Everybody should feel free to post and ask questions–it’s what makes book clubs fun! But please do not post until you are familiar with Spoiler Courtesy!
Spoiler Courtesy
Please follow these rules to avoid inadvertent ネタバレ. If you’re unsure whether something should have a spoiler tag, err on the side of using one.
Any potential spoiler for the current week’s reading need only be covered by a spoiler tag. Predictions and conjecture made by somebody who has not read ahead still falls into this category.
Any potential spoilers for external sources need to be covered by a spoiler tag and include a label (outside of the spoiler tag) of what might be spoiled. These include but are not limited to: other book club picks, other books, games, movies, anime, etc. I recommend also tagging the severity of the spoiler (for example, I may still look at minor spoilers for something that I don’t intend to read soon).
Any information from later in the book than the current week’s reading (including trigger warnings that haven’t yet manifested) needs to be hidden by spoiler tags and labeled as coming from later sections.
Instructions for Spoiler Tags
Click the cog above the text box and use either the “Hide Details” or “Blur Spoiler” options. The text which says “This text will be hidden” should be replaced with what you are wishing to write. In the case of “Hide Details”, the section in the brackets that is labelled “Summary” can be replaced with whatever you like also (i.e, [details=”Chapter 1, Pg. 1”]).
Hide Details results in the dropdown box like below:
Example
This is an example of the “Hide Details” option.
The “Blur Spoiler” option will simply blur the text it surrounds.
This is an example of the “Blur Spoiler” option.
Proper Nouns
Name
Hiragana reading
Notes
Kindle location first mentioned
小川 洋子
おがわようこ
the author
cover
二階堂
にかいどう
doctor (?family doctor for the main character)
22
Discussion questions
What was your favorite new vocab word from this week’s reading?
Did you spot any interesting kanji this week?
Was there any passage that you found particularly intriguing? Did it resonate with you (either positively or negatively)? Was it surprising? Offer any insight or new perspective? Was it just beautifully written?
Participation
Will you be reading along with us this week?
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I have finished this part
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0voters
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I love all of the icky, unappetizing descriptions of food in this section. Even starting before 姉のつわり, everything is gross except for the おせち料理 from the in-laws, which is so beautiful that it does not look like food.
On my first reading, it took me pretty much until the end of this section to put 2 and 2 together that 二階堂先生 is not the obstetrician, but rather a psychiatrist.
I’m not sure yet if it is my favourite phrase from this week’s reading, but there is a very odd and mysterious (perhaps itself 不可思議, which is a new word for me) piece of description, when 妹 is describing the unspoken communication between 姉 and 義兄.
I get the gist, but I’m not sure if I quite understand. Is she imagining a weird colourless gas passing between the couple communicating their feelings?
I think she is comparing “marriage” itself (夫婦というもの) to a gas, in the sense that they are both mysterious, intangible, without distinct color or shape (so indescribable, indefinable?) to her. She doesn’t get what makes “marriage” tick.
I thought the image of 姉 sleeping as if wandering in a deep cold swamp was striking and strange
The whole passage with the morning sickness related response to Mac and cheese is deeply unsettling. 姉 obviously spoils 妹’s enjoyment, as the cold dish is left sitting on the table. But I loved the description of 妹 sitting, trying to ignore her sister, while the kettle whistled and the wind rattled the window and the words dribbled from 姉’s lips…
Interesting words
催眠術 (I had completely forgotten the first kanji…)
小鼻 (weirdly my dictionary includes as an English word for nostrils “the wings of the nose”…what??? I mean it is a quirky image, but I have never encountered that in English)
And for an interesting kanji
膵 (膵液) - obviously not an everyday word or kanji. I also discovered that this is a [国字](Kokuji - Wikipedia
Really enjoying this novel so far. It is clearly very well written, with some quite surprising and interesting phrasing. Has felt very readable so far without anything particularly tricky.
Mac and cheese
The description of this scene was incredible. The more I read of it the more queasy I became until I genuinely was starting to feel sick myself. I had just hit a patch of turbulence on a flight so that may have been the cause, but I’m attributing it to the quality of the prose!
I think it was the part where she started talking about bile juices and pancreatic juices, and eating macaroni tubes feeling eating the tubes of the digestive tract that really got me!
Liked the 膵 kanji. I had quite a pancreas focussed week so this one struck a chord, as well as being an interesting kanji!
Isn’t it gorgeous? I love how she can make such a delicious thing as a ripe kiwi feel so disgusting
This was so upsetting! I was shouting like “Shut up already, you brat!” inside
That’s really the author’s style. I once listened to an interview with Ogawa Yoko’s German translator, Sabine Mangold, who explained this in detail. So far I’ve only read Hakase, which doesn’t fit this bill very much imho, but it seems to hold quite true for other books she wrote.
Right? I mean, congratulations, it means a lot regarding your understanding of Japanese if the text can make you feel this way!
Is anyone else listening to the audiobook?
(I’ve listened to the first couple of sections after I have read them twice, so I think it is helpful for reinforcement. Don’t think I could follow without having read beforehand)
One thing I spotted (which I should have known) was the reading for 昨夜 (my head read this as さくや, but the more common reading, used by the narrator is ゆうべ)
I’m finding it very helpful! But yes, definitely after having a read first, or alongside the read. It’s decent, but I find the transition in voice now and then a bit distracting (I can tell when she must have started and stopped different recording sessions because the volume and voice tone change a bit).
I tripped over 昨夜 as well, I’ve only seen that in kana (but there are a lot of words I’ve only seen in kana ) . I’d really like to know how standard her use of kanji is? There are some words I would expect as kanji, like 私 but often appear in kana, and words I would expect in kana that appear in kanji (胡椒, 大体 and 昨夜 were the last ones). Perhaps it is aesthetic choice depending on other words, as some words like 匂い have appeared in both kana and kanji.
I’m trying to be patient with 姉 because she’s pregnant and all, but dude, you can’t just sit there while someone is eating, staring at them and saying “Isn’t that food actually so gross though? It looks like intestines and it’s all slimy, how can you eat that ewww!” If you’re so grossed out just leave the table. Props to 妹 for trying to ignore her. But with the wind on the window, the mess in the kitchen, and 姉 bugging her, I could feel the sensory overload.
Also this is the first real adult book I’ve read, so I’m shocked at how many onomatopoeia there are.
OK I made it! I enjoyed reading everyone’s comments and had a lot of similar thoughts, especially all the unsettling food descriptions
I thought the language was so evocative. As its my first novel, I don’t recognise the difference between what is expressive in an original way vs maybe a normal Japanese expression that is much different to English. But I gather from the comments her writing probably sounds as unique and pointed to a Japanese native
This one caught my eye as my favourite for the week:
The sentence about sleeping just before the Jan 8th Section starts
深く冷たい沼をさまようように、眠るのだ
To sleep like wandering in a deep cold marsh. Brilliant writing. I chose that and saw @Domjcw also commented on the unique imagery!
Oh wow that would make sense. Did you just guess based on the sister’s behaviour or was there something more explicit?
Finally managed to finish the weekly dose just in time for the next one. Off to a promising start. I like that the style is so different from the other picks I’ve read with this club, it’s good to have some variety. And it’s so evocative.
Food
Idk, I actually felt a bit frustrated that the narrator just sits there and doesn’t say anything. I’d have yelled. I wonder if this says anything about their relationship. Is she somehow too afraid of her sister to say anything?
Another thing that was interesting about this whole food thing is that it’s not just 姉 who’s easily grossed out by food. 妹 herself starts it days earlier, when she gets grossed out by the kiwi and the omelette. At this point, I’m wondering if the whole thing actually doesn’t have anything to do with morning sickness and instead, both sisters have the same oddly specific eating disorder.
Nikaidou-sensei
The only thing I can think of is that there’s one section where 妹 thinks about how weird it is that 姉 is so calm about the pregnancy, because she usually gets easily disturbed by minor disruptions and always goes to see Nikaidou-sensei when she does. I’m not sure that makes him a psychiatrist, though. It’s also possible that he’s some other sort of doctor and 姉 uses his consultation hour as a form of stress relief.
It would have been nice if she’d stood up for herself, but as someone who has been in that same situation with my brother,[1] I understood why she left. She knew it wasn’t worth fighting over at that moment. And with everything else going on I was getting the feeling that she was starting to get overwhelmed, and recognized that it was best to remove herself from the situation before things escalated. I do want to see 姉 confronted about this at some point though.
About the kiwi and omelette: I’m getting the feeling that 妹 is just discontent with life in general right now, and is just looking for anything to complain about.
What amazes me is that I can relate to both of these points, so much that I’m even starting to see myself in the story. It’s no wonder Yoko Ogawa is so famous!
I think 姉 is also just being a jerk. If her urge to wax poetic-disgusting about maccaroni were really caused by pregnancy-related nausea, I doubt she could bear to dwell for so long on gastric juices flowing through pasta tubes. This all gives me the impression that the sisters have a complicated relationship with more than a dash of toxidity in it, and I’m curious to see how it develops.
Oh, makes sense! I thought that sentence meant that she gets easily disturbed, AND she had just gone to Nikaido Sensei very nervous, so it was weird she was now so calm.
But she hasn’t gone to Nikaido Sensei, she went to the gynecologist who was a different doctor!
