国 is terrorizing me

Hi!

The 国-Kanji is killing me. I mean not the Kanji, but the Vocabs.
I assume there is absolutely no logic when it’s read ごく or こく, right?
I think this will be my best friend until Level 60. But I’m sure on the remaining 51 levels there will be a lot more of similar friends…

Cheers,
Sebastian

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Yup, rendaku thing has no logic, just get used to it.
Welcome to Japanese.

upd: and yes, there are hella lot of such cases. Rendaku is turbo-common.

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which one does somewhat automatically anyway, by means of more exposure. i’m not even good at japanese but i’m developing a feeling for when things rendaku and when they don’t …

… and then the exceptions come along :sweat_smile:

i’m quite fond of the rendaku information userscript.

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Well, not like I said it would be impossible, right? :wink: SRS is a magic :star2:

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Personally I remembered 天国 with Goten and Goku.

However I have no tip for 中国. I have not burnt that one yet :frowning:

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There’s been posts on this in the past:

On WK, there’s only three words that use ごく instead of こく: 中国、天国、隣国. So just memorize those and you’re good.

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It’s almost always こく, because that is the actual reading of the kanji. Being an on’yomi, it is rare that it undergoes rendaku.
(This is unlike some rather mischievous kanji, like 大 and 神, where obe in’yomi (usually the go-on) is voiced and another (usually kan-on) is unvoiced.)

However, it may still occur after ん, presumably because because -んご- is easier to pronounce than -んこ-. This is probably what happens in 天国.
That being said, that doesn’t stop 韓国 from being read かんこく.

The odd one out is really 中国. In their article about rendaku, a cuple of possible reasons are listed:

  1. Rendaku helps solidify that this needs to be thought of as a compound word, where the parts don’t necessarily make sense on their own; unlike the 韓 in 韓国, which rarely means anything other than “Korea”, 中 has a multitude of meanings, and is used very frequently.
    Think of it like the intonation difference between “red beard” and “Redbeard”.

  2. If it were pronounced -こく, 中国 it could be confused with 忠告 (“advice, warning”).

Doing a search on Jisho for “*ごく *国 #common”, and sorting out ones listed as irregular alternative readings, it seems the main ones you’ll need to worry about are:

-んごく

天国
隣国
本国
三国
戦国
南国

Others

中国
島国 (but this is usually pronounced しまぐに, anyway)
両国 (primarily when referring to the Ryōgoku area of Tokyo; otherwise, りょうこく will do the trick)

It’s probably best to think of the ごくs as an exception, and try to remember a reason why it’s an exception, until you’ve repeated it so many times that it just comes naturally to you.

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I just got 全国 wrong just now! :joy:

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Wow! Thanks a lot for all those quick answer! :slight_smile:
I think I will let the SRS do it’s magic. Although I’m just level 9, it already helped with some items where I was close to throwing my computer out of the window… So I’m confident.

Haha! Sorry, that was not my intention… :slight_smile:

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I hadn’t seen this thread yet. If I had, I surely would have got it right :wink:

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天国 is rendaku’d because it is a high place. (You can think sacred place)
中国 is rendaku’d because kanjis are chinese character so they did what they wanted with it :wink:

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I see you don’t watch many sports anime…

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No I’ve heard it a bunch in テニスの王子様 and maybe also in ダイヤのエース (though I think they usually call it 甲子園 there). I just had a brain disconnect (and then accidentally pressed backspace and entered the right answer).

But you’re right, I’ve only ever watched those two, and I didn’t even finish the second…

So this is how one can do a boolean (AND) search on Jisho? Everything in parenthesis? I was trying to find how to do this for sometime… Thanks!

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My understanding is that Jisho searches always have an assumed (AND); it’s (OR) that’s the tricky part :slight_smile:

(That is, assuming that it finds anything in that cross-section; otherwise, it splits it into multiple searches.)

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I have Wanikani Rendaku Information script installed, and it has this fancy mnemonics about 中国 pronunciation:

中国 (ちゅうごく) does rendaku because although 国(こく) is onyomi, 中国 is one of the three countries in WaniKani (China, Heaven and the Neighboring Country) that you really want to go (ご!) to.

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Ha! Just installed the Rendaku-script. That’s cool.

BTW: Another Kanji is also terrorizing me: 日 Is there anz logic whether it’s read にち or じつ ?

My take on it - a lot of rendaku start making sense after a while. Not in a logical sense, but it starts sounding right when you say them out loud. I have the voice function turned on and I typically repeat it out loud.

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I’m okay with 国, but the difference between じん and にん for 人 is killing me. Anyone have any tips?

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Haha… You’re right, me too. There’s a lot more terror when you start thinking about it…