ゼノギアス // Week 4 // Chapters 9 & 10

tbh, I don’t know if it’s ever even explained? Which is weird because they have NPCs spelling out button pushes for other things…

Oh, word of warning for anyone using the EN guide: the English version swapped not just circle/x commands, but ALSO T/Square! So the guide tells you TX is the easiest to learn first…that’s Square-Circle for us! 1AP then 3 AP attacks.

I only noticed late last week when I was trying to figure out why all these other DBs were in progress before I’d gotten the low handing fruit…yeah. I guess it’s a more natural player experience since I don’t think that ever comes up either :rofl:

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Note to the devs (30 years too late):

  • Remove that lore dump at the start if you’re going to reintroduce all these concepts organically through the story anyway.
  • Instead add a proper combat tutorial.
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Now that you mention, I meant to ask. An NPC earlier told the secret to make a bigger jump but I never manager to pull it off, what are you supposed to do?

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Week 4 Play Report

Ok this week definitely felt quite long, but part of that was getting ambushed every few steps in the sinking ship. Fun setpiece but the encounter rate definitely felt a little too high

Loved the scene with グラーフ this week but then I usually enjoy theatrical villains. Talking about killing god straight off the bat always gets me on side. Also interesting to note that both グラーフ and 天帝 talked about 神. That 天帝 scene was tricky to read, but also just tricky to make heads or tails of because they’re being vague.

I’m still enjoying the battle system - I do think it’s cool having to remember the inputs to do the deathblows (even if it does tell you at the bottom of the screen). It’s just fun to press the buttons quickly and see the animation play. Makes combat feel a little more tactile. I am definitely feeling a sore lack of options to deal with multiple enemies though - everything so far is single target.

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I think it’s just a running jump, which you probably did intuitively because it’s a fairly obvious mechanic…

One annoyance for me is that sometimes I press ◯ one time too many when selecting the target, which triggers a strong hit immediately and prevents me from comboing…

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OK nice, I was afraid I was missing out on something like a double jump or something.

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finishing the week stream of consciousness

Fei really just left that guy to rot in the desert huh?

Turns out Citan really didn’t need our help! He already stole the parts, fixed ヴェルトール, and brought it back from the forest in a single day!

Citan: “I, who apparently can pilot this cutting edge gear, can’t use it’s full capabilities, but you who ostensibly hasn’t been trained can, so brush aside that trama and fight those guys.”

Baby Fei apparently killed (or feels he killed) the owner of that cross necklace? I’m intrigued. And also confused! I get the feeling there will be a lot of that!

How did Graf arrange that gear to be at Lahan?? Is “that power” of Fei’s also the reason Citan thinks Fei can pilot ヴェルトール better?

「己が課せられた天命を全うせず、ただ日々暮らすばかりの下民外道がいくら死んだとて我は何も感じぬわ」 yikes!

運命<さだめ> gives me some no free will/trapped by a preordained fate vibes I’m squinting at a bit. Especially with that 「天命」 both Graf and 天帝 have used!

Hate when things are vague. What does it mean? What does this mean too: 福音の劫<とき>. Blessed ages? Eternal reoccurrence? Time of the gospel?

My dictionaries define 劫 as:
nBuddhJMdict (English)
kalpa (eon, aeon)
uk
ko (in go)
position that allows for eternal capture and recapture of the same stones
スーパー大辞林 3.0
こう (こふ)【▼劫】
① [1]〔梵 kalpaの音訳「劫波」の略〕〘仏〙ほとんど無限ともいえるほどの長い時間の単位。具体的な長さは諸説あって一定しない。
② [0][1]囲碁で,交互に相手方の一石を取ることができる形。これを反復すると勝負がつかないため,一手以上他に打ったあとでなければ取れない。

天帝 has some kind of real time mental connection with Citan…seems annoying to me. One moment you’re thinking vague philosophical thoughts, the next you’re in a nausea inducing void. I wonder if the 神 they want to wake is the same as the 母なる神 Graf wants to kill?

LMAO Citan just kicks the door out. They could leave whenever they wanted.

but uuuhg, the last area of the sinking ship made me nauseous with the flickering lights.

And finally, of course Citan knows Sigurd! Why not!

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reply week 4

It was Time of the gospel in the English translation

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I wondered how the translation dealt with the furigana, and it seems to try to emphasize those words a bit: not just time and gospel, The -Time- of the -Gospel-. Both シタン and 天帝 speak of it that way.

I guess this type of emphasis is so rare in English text that it doesn’t quite come across effectively? (I’d personally perhaps use asterisks here…)

Hmmm? I didn’t think there was a real-time connection in play here; rather, I thought during the brief bit of downtime they had シタン just reminisced what 天帝 had earlier told him about the 福音のとき.

The game has done flashbacks already previously, so that’s what I thought was going on here as well. Maybe we’ll learn in greater detail as the game progresses.


Regarding the gear battle system and attack levels, I think the devs expected players to have read the manual before starting the game – back in those days games came with paper manuals. :relieved_face: Archive.org has a copy, but it kind of spoils who will be joining our party, so the relevant pages (24 & 25) are right here…

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One more tiny translation difference

This was officially translated as:

“Ha ha ha…
Well, Doctor Citan Uzuki!
Feels like you have sacked
your saccules, and tickled
your utricles enough for
one life time! Wow, dizzy!”

The translation keep us within the inner ear but goes from 三半規管, semicircular canals (detecting rotation) to saccules (detecting vertical acceleration) and utricles (detecting horizontal acceleration). I think it manages to get the meaning across but perhaps with a little more, err, character than intended.

Pondered whether I should add 卵形嚢 or 球形嚢 to my Anki, but nah, they didn’t actually appear here!

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I have a hard time understanding it even with that guide description, haha.
Looks like the 2. 3. 4. describe entire turns here. And a deathblow would be e.g. square (weak attack) + circle (strong attack).

Very good call. Many retro games almost require reading the manual to explain some mechanics or insights. One should always try having a look at the manual for retro games, ideally.
Back then, manuals were extensive and sometimes little works of art even with screenshots, concept art etc, they were basically expected to be read. I sometimes also forget about this when playing retro games.
Thanks for sharing the extract!

first page of FF7 Japanese manual has a poetic quote + concept art

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Nice! Yeah we should include those more often in the club pages (if possible), it’s fun to read them (though definitely has spoilers)

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That was less the case on PS1 in my experience, especially for a big budget production like this. You can certainly play most Square RPGs from that time without reading the booklet.

And then there’s Galerians…

Edit: oh that’s not from Square. My point stands then.

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Well, on the other hand there’s also

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Yeah, the more modern the game and the broader the audience, the less it relies on a manual, probably.
I could imagine a manual being more helpful for games like Armored Core (a mech game), or generally older games, especially PC games.
I tried playing X-COM Apocalypse (a DOS game), and I just had absolutely no idea what was going on or what I should do. People said you should read the manual (iirc).

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Yep! You have to do basic attack turns to build ATK level. DBs consume attack levels.

Yes. Although unfortunately they don’t map directly to their on foot equivalent! The names are even different, and Gear DBs are all two buttons only.

Basically all Gear DBs are the same button combos for all characters. Level 1 all starts with 10fuel attack, Level 2 with the 20 fuel, and level 3 with a 30 fuel.

However until you learn the on foot equivalent, you won’t have access to the gear DB. And the on foot is gated by both repetition of button presses AND character level.

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I know the first game is pretty slow but I wouldn’t call it a chore :stuck_out_tongue:

It is a fun game if you rebind a few controls to make it feel less clunky (fortunately it has full controller rebinding - but no analogue support)

But having played it I wouldn’t say it needs a manual really, a lot of the info is in the game or is mostly self explanatory

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Haha, oops, that was absolutely unintended. I’ve wanted to try Armored Core for a long time, even the first game on the PS1 (and of course 6 with the Dark Souls creator directing again). Also fits the mecha theme with Xenogears :slight_smile:

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Ok but what about King’s Field?

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Haha, I was actually thinking about King’s Field (same developer), that game could probably also use a manual. Though it’s also fun figuring it all out. I incidentally started playing King’s Field 2 (JP, which is King’s Field 1 in the US) a few days ago, it’s a fun challenge for masochists who like not knowing what to do.

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