コンビニ人間: Week 3 Discussion

I finished the reading for the week and it was once again generally easy but I have one question.

Summary

今の「私」を形成しているのはほとんど私のそばにいる人たちだ。

This seems like one of those weird sentences someone mentiones before. I interpret it to mean “The current “I” was formed mostly by the people near me” which is… a weird sentence. So maybe I got it comepletely wrong. I mean it could make sense if this 「私」 had been mentioned in the previous sentence but it doesn’t seem that way so I’m not sure what to think.

Yeah that was really weird. I actually took my eyes away from the page after that sentence and when I was trying to find were I was afterwards I found the repeated sentence first and was very confused for a bit. Then I realized it was repeated and was even more confused. I mean she didn’t even change a letter, even the えー at the beginning.

As others said there weren’t a lot of new things this week so l’m eager to see where this goes next.

3 Likes
Summary

You read it right: The “Me” right now is formed mostly of those people around me.

The explanation that comes after goes on to describe more what she meant.

1 Like

Ohhh I totally see what you mean now. I was expecting it to refer to something previously talked about but of course it’s about what is said after.
I guess since I read slowly and take breaks sometimes it’'s easy to lose track of context… Thanks!

2 Likes

ここの靴は泉さんがトイレに入っている隙に靴底のブランド名をメモして、お店に出向いて買ったものだ

Why the ものだ here ? verbたものだ usually means “used to”, but here it seems it was a one-time event.

時間がないから誓いの言葉はいいや、それでは、接客用語を唱和します。『いらっしゃいませ!』」

Any idea what the 誓いの言葉 looks like ?
誓い in jisho is translated as oath or vow, so it sounds slightly terrifying, as if every morning they have to chant their vow of devotion to the sacred コンビニ or something like that. 誓い is maybe much more mundane in Japanese ?

外から人が入ってくるチャイム音が、教会の鐘の音に聞こえる。

What is the pattern here ? sound1がsound2に聞こえる is maybe “sound1 sounds like sound2” ?

This isn’t a grammar point. This is literally もの+だ (these shoes are the one that …)

  1. I don’t know about the combini vows or anything, but that’s what I gathered yes. I thought it was more of a joke though. In any case, it’s still creeping me out that they rehearse saying irrashaimase every morning.

  2. it wouldn’t think of it as a pattern, as it’s just words put together (like, there’s no extra nuance or meaning that would get from an expression or a set phrase for instance). But that’s basically what it means yes.

2 Likes

:exploding_head:
So obvious in retrospect… :sweat_smile: Thanks !

Yeah, me too ! But I have never worked in those kind of retail part-time job, so I wonder how common are morning drill, not just in japan.

1 Like

This is what Martin calls the intransitive putative (see 9.1.11.(7) p469). Incidentally, it seems to be available only for those verbs which have a spontaneous interpretation, as we discussed last time (including kikoeru, omowareru, etc.). Martin analyses it as a conversion from X ga Y da (ni being the infinitive of the copula), so that X ga Y ni kikoeru means somewhat literally “X is heard as Y”. As @Naphthalene said, it is not an idiom but rather productive, e.g., it also works with other verbs and with adjectives in place of Y; compare omosiroku mieta “looked interesting”. Compare also the transitive putative, e.g., sore o omosiroku omotta “I thought it (was) interesting”.

2 Likes

Oh, interesting ! I knew about the grammar ____に見える, but I had not idea it generalizes to all 自発動詞. Thanks. And btw you often quote Martin reference grammar book on various topic, so this book seems to be impressively exhaustive, I should try to grab a copy.

And I will definitively try to use “intransitive putative” in cocktail party :stuck_out_tongue:

3 Likes

Personally, I have successfully used “scalar implicature” in a daily conversation. 5 stars, will do it again.

7 Likes

Well, it is a descriptive reference grammar so its purpose is to be exhaustive. :slight_smile: And as far as I know, Martin is still the go-to reference for Japanese Grammar today. It’s very extensive in its coverage, but fair warning: the presentation makes it hard to use or search (e.g., examples inline interleaved with commentary and no italics to offset the Japanese from the English) and, while it is not aimed at linguists only, it is still far more technical than your run-of-the-mill introductory or school grammar. Also, it is seriously out of print, and even the least expensive used copy you can find online goes for hundreds of pounds. Given all that I think it’s fair to mention that you can find a scanned PDF circulating on the Internet if you know where to look…

2 Likes

They say it together at some point, so you will find out! It ends with ~ことを誓います。

I may need a stronger drink… :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

#lifegoals

1 Like

Caught up! Whew, I feel like this week’s reading was a bit more difficult than before. There were quite a few long sentences where I just completely lost the point of the sentence and sometimes particles felt all over the place. Vocabwise it’s starting to get a lot smoother, with frequent words appearing often.

May have to re-read the passage to remember what to ask :stuck_out_tongue: I think some of them were already answered here, though.

4 Likes

Haha yeah I liked that part too.

1 Like

Meant to answer to this before when it was mentioned /asked, but forgot.

So, I don’t know about Konbini, but when I was working as part of the staff in a hotel, during the 朝礼 we would also do this. Starting off with おはようございます at the beginning, and ending with a series of customer service 挨拶. This included the ones mentioned in the book as well! かしこまりました、失礼致します、ありがとうございました etc.

So, I imagine this is actually a thing and not just a parody. The chanted oath might or might not be, we didn’t have that. :sweat_smile:

It did feel a bit sect like.

8 Likes

I think this is absolutely real. If you watch dramas, you often see small companies do this.

2 Likes