ひ pronunciation in the beginning of a word

Japanese Language
1

“this cannot be that there are so many incorrectly voiced words!” - that was the idea after listening to words voiced for WK vocabs.
“have ears become deaf already?..” was the second thought, so here we go.

first, it was 皮肉 by Kyoko. :ok_woman: so, "let’s check other similar words, is it perhaps like あたし for 私?”

but. no. that’s was wrong accusation. Kenichi is more guilty of pronouncing it like い.

  • 広い (sounds identical to 色々)
  • 必死 and 必勝 (but 必要)
  • 干潟
  • 左側 (but 左手)
  • 東
  • 避難
  • 非常に
  • 非常口
  • 皮膚いい
  • 引き算
  • 膝
  • 膝小僧 (but 膝頭)

the list is not complete, but it does give the overall impression, that there can be something else other than recording errors. there are these ones in addition:

  • 秀でる
  • 浸る (sounds like したる; but all is good for 浸す)

are there any hints on the cause?
the only explanation that comes to mind is that all these words were subjects of “fricative palatal” pronunciation (as defined in this wiki page) but it is doubtful that such learning material should be presented to beginners…

2

It’s not a recording error. That’s just the pronunciation of ひ

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3

thanks, this gives a hint for one of the above (hit… can be sht…).
what is problematic here is that it is not consistent in vocab voicing.

4

Am I the only one who never had this confusion? Yes, ひ sometimes moves slightly forward to be more noticeably fricative, but it’s still clearly a different sound from し, made in a different location.

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5

well, it is still recognizable as “h” when it sounds like “sh” - there is no problem with it. (and this was just a note “in addition to”, so…)
the main question is having no “h” in some vocabs.

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6

Interesting, I guess I misunderstood your question, since the ‘h’->‘sh’ has come up a few times.
On the other note, I listened to the audio for 皮肉, and I still clearly hear an ‘h’ there.

7

in both voices? for 皮肉, it is clearly heard for male voice, but not for female one.
it is possible to convince that all is good for 秀でる and 非常に/非常口, but listening to it without ‘self-preparation’ gets back to point one.

8

It is much less clear with Kyoko as opposed to Kenichi, but I do still hear it for both of them.

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9

“don’t trust anyone” says a whisper in the head… so, sound editor indeed shows something before “い”, but not to degree to be recognized (with silenced city noises in background) as a separate sound. the same goes for “広い”, so probably it is necessary to really train ear and mind to catch these almost/completely non-existing sounds.

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