Worth writing kanji?

Arguments are ok as long as all sides respect each other and don’t formulate their opinions as if they were The Final Words of the Intergalactic Overlord…

Anyway, returning to the subject of writing, as I’ve said, I do practice writing, I just don’t use the stroke order. And the reason I don’t use the stroke order is because it feels too unnatural to me.
I mean, there are kanji like 寺 which is divided quite logically. Officially it has six strokes - and that’s exactly how many I see there. But then there are kanji like 口 which officially has 3 strokes:

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I’m sorry, but I don’t see it. Why not make it four strokes by dividing the second stroke into two? Or why not make first and second stroke into one stroke, so that it would be a two-stroke kanji? There probably is some very logical reason for it, but one might need to go into real depth to find it. As for me, I sometimes write it as a two-stroke kanji and sometimes - as a four stroke-kanji. Which is both wrong and unofficial, but I can only write in a way that feels natural to me. And that’s why I don’t study the stroke order. Maybe someday I will have to, but for now I prefer to decide myself how many strokes to use for a kanji. Btw, here’s an example of my handwriting:

Handwriting has helped me tremendously with kana (especially with katakana I’ve been struggling with), so I want to try with kanji too, after reaching lvl 60 on WK.

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I think the reason for writing the second stroke of 口 in this manner, and along this line all of these box shaped kanjis, like the right side of 間 is because of the brush. If you don’t draw the curve in one stroke it looks different.

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Assume anything that you find weird about stroke order is because that’s how ancient people writing with brushes found it the most efficient way of writing, over centuries and centuries. Not sure if it’s necessarily the best way for writing with a pen or pencil, but I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt on this one.

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He is trolling you guys pretty hard, and you are going for it.

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Well, this is an interesting thread…

I’ll throw my two turtles in then. I have not learned how to write kanji and I’m doing pretty well without it. Will learning to write kanji help with retention? Maybe. Will I ever learn how to write kanji? Maybe. I want to because it would be awesome and so I can say I can write Japanese.
However, my goal for learning Japanese is simply to read. That’s it. I have no plans to go to Japan or have conversations with Japanese people. I don’t intend to write a Japanese novel which would require me to recall what I know. Yes, I will probably learn some listening/talking skills simply because I will be absorbed in the language. I also know that my goals will probably change as I progress but for the time being, reading recognition is my goal and WK+grammar fulfills that purpose for me.

In reference to being able to read handwriting, I use this script. Obviously it’s not perfect solution, but it really does help with recognizing the kanji as strokes and not just the picture of a digital kanji.

I think that if you are not having trouble memorizing without writing them you will be fine. If you are having trouble, maybe just learn the one’s you get wrong on your reviews. It’s all up to you. Everyone learns differently and it can take time to figure out what works and what doesn’t. Anyways, just do you and experiment with different learning techniques until you find which one is less sucky. :wink: I bet you didn’t think such a simple question would cause such a ruckus :joy:

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Same here. Maybe someday I’ll learn to write all the things. But, low priority for now.

I’d give you a like, but I’ve already given you the correct cumulative number of them :face_with_monocle:

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I’d be quite interested in the calculations for that… in exchange I gave them a like for you. :stuck_out_tongue:

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image

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This makes me feel like I’m part of the WK elite now. squeee

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I speak English fluently and get along fine, but there are still some people who’s handwriting I can’t read. There’s also people in Germany who’s handwriting I can’t read even though I’m German. There’s also plenty of English words I can’t spell properly without looking them up. That doesn’t mean I can’t get by.

I want to learn Japanese mostly to read books and to talk to people. I don’t need to read shitty handwriting for that. And if I can’t read a menu, I can just ask the waiter. What’s wrong with that?

When I started with WaniKani I used to write every kanji by hand repeatedly, but gave it up after a while because it didn’t really help and took a lot of time.

If it works for you, great, but to basically call everyone stupid who doesn’t agree with you is unnecessary.

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It’s clearly a personal matter, and depends on why you are learning the language I suppose. I’ll just say that for me writing kanji and kana is a deeply gratifying aesthetic experience and a skill I would no longer wish to be without. I also believe that it helps you to remember both the kanji themselves and the wildly annoying WaniKani radicals!

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Personally it depends for what purpose you want to use the Kanji knowledge.
For me it worked when I was learning Hiragana and Katakana and now I’m able to read them more and more fluently. Same with the Kanji. It helps recognise and it’s like an extra layer memorisation for me. Though I’m writing down not just the Kanji, but atleast a sample sentence.
I realised that helped immensely remembering the meaning. So when multiple Kanji words starting to appear I could form by individual pieces. So for me it’s rewarding to do so.
Yes it is very time consuming, but good things requires time. So I didn’t regret doing so at all.

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I totally agree, pity you’ve removed that post; I don’t think there is anything wrong with it.

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If you all just stop responding to him, he’ll die, like the Old Gods. He is feeding on your butthurt.

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I find it funny when people take their own personal goals, desires, and self-imposed requirements for Japanese and insist on applying them to everyone else. As if there’s no chance for people having differing ambitions or personal values when it comes to the language. You have to be pretty high and mighty to think everyone should follow your own routine and embrace all the things you embrace.

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Am I late to the party? :sob:

But I wanteddd the cake everyone is having…

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Writing it with four strokes just means you have to randomly lift your pen at one corner for no particular reason, right? If one stroke ends at the same spot where the next one begins, you might as well keep drawing that same stroke.

The problem with writing it with two strokes is that you’d likely have to drag your pen across the diagonal of the square, which risks accidentally making marks in the middle of it and making it look like a different kanji. A bigger deal with a brush than with modern pens, sure, but I think it would still be not too hard to make errors like that when writing quickly. At least with the official three-stroke technique, you’re always lifting your pen along lines where you’ve already drawn a stroke or are about to draw one, so you don’t have to be quite so careful.

More importantly, though… there’s not much about kanji that’s easy to organize. Having an agreed-upon standard for stroke count matters, because it’s pretty much the easiest attribute of a kanji to look up in a reference. And if you’re going to be looking up unknown kanji in reference materials, you’ll pretty much need to know how to guess the official stroke count. (I’m not sure, but I think even the fancy handwriting lookup methods today don’t do very well if you don’t use something pretty close to the right number of strokes.)

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That’s why I deleted it. I responded immediately after I read that post, but after reading all the other responses that followed, I felt like everything had been said already and I was just feeding the troll.

But since it has a reply now, I restored it.

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That is exactly how I feel about learning to write it. Learning something is a benefit not a detriment and it always has been this way. The disappointing thing for me when I aired my views was having all the bullies and prigs attack the opinion as if it was worthless.

What I can add is that the biggest misconception about writing Kanji is that it is extremely difficult and time consuming. The truth is it is not time consuming and not difficult and even the most difficult looking Kanji can be written with considerable ease.

examples like 飛行機 where the final Kanji in hikouki looks like it would be difficult to write, it is actually quite easy because the top part is a repetitive condensed form of thread 糸 The next one here which looks difficult is actually considerably easy to write 愛 the bottom part of it is essentially the following two Kanji 心 友 condensed and elongated on top of each other. By learning to write even the basic Kanji the same principal follows through for the more advanced Kanji.

People can be very good at memorising patterns and may be able to pick up Kanji really good in digital form, but taking it to another level and actually learning how to write it greatly improves your ability to remember and gives you the added ability to recreate.

My opinion is that it is a benefit - definitely
Will it help learning Kanji - definitely
Will it prevent you from learning - not at all
Will it slow you down - not at all

Each to their own as to whether they decide to write it or not. That is not my issue and it is their choice of what they get out of it. I am fine with that. What I am not fine with is having people who have never put pen to paper with Kanji and try and say that it is not a benefit. It is a benefit and it is impossible not to be a benefit because by nature learning something new is always a benefit and not a detriment.

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