モールに晩御飯は行きます
(I’m going to the mall for dinner)
モールで晩御飯は行きます
Can the second one be used as well, signifying I will be eating dinner at the mall?
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No, only the first is correct. The function of the particles also relates to the verb being used - if you wanted to say you were eating dinner at the mall, you’d need to use the verb “eating”, as in 晩ご飯はモールで食べます
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Clause ordering is a bit odd - almost always the は marked topic comes first. And you don’t have anything representing the “mark a purpose or reason” that ‘for’ is doing in the English. The flexible nature of the Japanese topic makes that just about OK, but you’re relying on the listener to deduce things from context. It’s like you’re saying “Dinner? Oh, I’m going to the mall.” – in context that’s fine as an answer to a question like “what are you doing for dinner?” or in the middle of a summary of your plans for the day, but out of context it’s a bit lacking.
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Thanks a lot. If は should come first, then why is the first sentence acceptable with the に coming first?
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Mostly because it’s just “should” and not “must”. Since particles define the function a word plays in a sentence, word order is extremely malleable, but there are some standards that are generally followed for the purposes of clarity - namely, the topic usually goes at the front, and the direct object (in sentences with a direct object) usually stays near the verb.
(And also because the original question was about whether に or で are appropriate rather than about word order, so I just decided not to bring it up.)
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Putting the different parts of a sentence in different places not only gives the sentence a different emphasis, but also, it may prime a Japanese person’s brain to expect the sentence to go a different way, making the sentence feel not wrong, but strange.
I’m not Japanese so I can’t give a native speaker’s thoughts, but here’s how my brain interprets モールに晩御飯は行きます as I’m reading it:
モールに
“Okay so the location is being placed at the start with a に, so based on all the Japanese I’ve been exposed to, this probably means it’s going to be about something being at the mall.”
So at this point, my brain is primed for the sentence to be something like モールにマックドナルドがあります.
晩御飯は
“Not what I was expecting, but I guess dinner could be at the mall”
Here the sentence could still be completely natural if it was モールに晩御飯はあります “dinner is at the mall”.
行きます
“Wait, 行きます? So actually there’s nothing at the mall, we’re just going to the mall? And then it’s about dinner, so I guess we’re going to the mall for dinner?”
The meaning gets through, but it makes my brain jump through hoops to get there.
In general don’t worry about trying to get the most natural particle order, it’s something that will come naturally to you with enough exposure.
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Neither of these strikes me as an acceptable sentence, but maybe I’m forgetting something.
I would think, “I can understand the intention, but it sounds like a series of thoughts without a proper sentence formation”
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Not sure what’s up with the solution post but I’m pretty certain the first sentence is completely wrong. The second one I could see being used but not how you’re intending it and some Japanese people might take problem with it grammatically. It would be like if your friends were planning on meeting up to see a movie and eat at a mall and you’re like I’m not going to the movie but I’m down for dinner at the mall.
Just using your particles you could say
モールに晩御飯に行きます
But I would personally say
モールに晩御飯を食べに行きます
If I wanted to get across all that info in one sentence
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The は conveys the subject is. The は in your sentence is going to be わたし. So the right way to say it is 私は晩ご飯にモールに行きます (I am going to the mall for dinner) the fist に is used as for (like ‘for’ dinner). The second に is marking a direction (you can also use へ here no problem). 晩ご飯 will not have a は, otherwise dinner becomes the subject of the sentence.
Also a lot of the time we drop わたし because it is implied. So really I would say in real life: 晩ご飯にモールに行きます but even though I did not say it there is still an ‘invisible’わたしは’ in front. This is also assuming there was context before this was said haha. I find it a funny image if I walked up to someone and just said this and walked off. Anyway, hope this helps.
I wasn’t saying anything either way about either sentence being acceptable. I think the は position is odd in both. Your problem really is what @leebo says - you haven’t actually got a properly formed sentence in there in either case that says what you want it to.
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This one sounds weird, since you put the focus on 晩御飯. At face value it’s the dinner who’s going to the mall.
This one has a different nuance and I would’ve probably done
But it still feels like a shorthand, despite using the polite masu form. There is an assumed context the sentence could go with, because alone it’s still a bit 違和感. So something like this makes more sense:
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Neither sounds natural to me. I don’t agree with the solution post, would listen to Vanilla and Leebo. Lately felt that it’s not unusual to see confident first posts getting it completely wrong…
Mostly because I was assuming it was a question of whether に or で is correct with 行く rather than critiquing the sentence as a whole. But even so, aside from the slightly-off word order, it’s not too incorrect. Contrastive は, my friend.
Ah yes, dinner is going to the mall, as contrasted with myself who will not be going to the mall because there is sentient food roaming the streets and going to malls and I’m too scared to leave my house.
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モールに食べに行きます
I’m going to the mall to eat.
I personally wouldn’t expect a Japanese to add 晩ご飯、It’s kind of implied by the time of day.
I might say モールに行って、トンカツ欲しいんですが、I’m going to the mall, I’ve been wanting some tonkatsu…
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How about
モールで晩御飯は食べに行きます
No, it has to be に, The base sentence is モールに行きます. Why? to eat. 晩御飯を食べに
モールに晩御飯を食べに行きます。モールに is connected to 行きます, 晩ご飯を is connect to 食べます.
(モールに) (晩御飯を食べに) (行きます。)
(to the mall) (to eat dinner) (I’m going)
モールで行きます Wrong
モールに行きます Right
晩御飯は食べます Wrong
晩御飯を食べます Right
Start: モールに行きます
モールに(Split)行きます
モールに(Add:晩御飯を食べます)行きます
モールに(晩御飯を食べ[erase:ます])行きます
モールに(晩御飯を食べ[add:に])行きます
モールに(晩御飯を食べに)行きます
Done: モールに晩御飯を食べに行きます
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Great explanation. Not necessarily relevant for OP it seems, but in general if there are any more intermediate users reading this I will add that まで and へ can also be used with 行く and thus 食べに行く and be grammatically correct (though will change the meaning to their respective nuances). You won’t see them very often, but such is life.
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I’m not a good Japanese teacher because they ask questions and I’m like I could give you the answer you are asking for, but I would be teaching you weird textbook Japanese, don’t you want this piece of actual Japanese I use in everyday life? Oh no, now I’ve been confusing.
Edit: I’ve turned gold lol.
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Just for my own understanding…
Minna No Nihongo chapter six presents this grammar note:
N (place) で V
When added after a noun denoting a place, the particle で indicates the occurrence of an action in that place.駅で新聞を買います。
I’m going to buy a paper at the station.
Is the issue with using で in the OP that we’re packing the going and the doing into the same sentence?