When can you say "I speak Japanese"?

I guess the issue was just trying to determine… do you have an “actual speaking” criterion in your “can speak” definition, because it looked like you didn’t initially. And some Japanese learners legitimately don’t have that ability even though they might have a high level proficiency certificate like JLPT N2 or N1.

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The question itself is silly, since criteria has to be assumed with such a vague question, like asking someone “Do you know maths?” rofl. Imo, you shouldn’t accept anything other than native level. I quite like ajatt’s quote - “You don’t know a language, you live it. You don’t learn a language, you get used to it.”

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I’ll get my time machine ready and make sure my parents move to Japan.

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I guess I can speak Japanese then.

Updating my resume. How do I list this specific qualification?

Edit – But according to @rever4217, I don’t and will never speak Japanese.

This is all so confusing.

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Don’t do it! Think of the paradoxes! And yeah sorry I meant something more along the lines of fluency rather than actually being a native, get enough input and you’ll eventually be indistinguishable.

I’m not sure I really agree with that, unless “eventually” covers lengths of time past most human lifespans. There are very, very few people who learn a language as an adult and become indistinguishable from natives. A single word’s pronunciation can reveal you’re non-native. But I don’t think I would ever aspire to be indistinguishable either.

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Yeah you’re right pronunciation’s another thing and can easily give away where you’re from… After all even though I speak english, I’d need to learn a british accent in order to be indistinguishable from brits lol, and of a certain region too.

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If you’re talking about a Japanese resume, this is the way I did it, under the 特技・趣味・得意科目など section:

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On the joking side, I just tell people I know enough Japanese to get slapped.

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I guess the issue was just trying to determine… do you have an “actual speaking” criterion in your “can speak” definition, because it looked like you didn’t initially. And some Japanese learners legitimately don’t have that ability even though they might have a high level proficiency certificate like JLPT N2 or N1.

Oh, I see the issue. I was writing from myself as the reference point in my original post, and my speaking ability is far superior to my listening ability. I struggle in conversations because I can’t comprehend easily. That’s why I focused on the listening aspect when I offered my thoughts.

Yes, I do automatically assume when someone says “I speak a language” that they have some ability to both express and understand that language. Because I haven’t yet reached my desired level and balance between both skills, I clarity my ability by saying “I speak some” instead of “I speak.”

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No reason to make it complicated. If you can have a meaningful conversation in Japanese, then you can speak it. Doesn’t mean on every possible topic. I’d say knowing N4-N3 grammar and having an active vocab of 1000+ words would put you in speaking Japanese category.

What many people in the thread consider “speaking” is actually “being fluent”.

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I really like to use the CEFR to judge my language abilities, even if Japanese is not a European language: The CEFR Levels

Here is the reference table that describes the levels: Global scale - Table 1 (CEFR 3.3): Common Reference levels

And a self-assessment grid: https://rm.coe.int/CoERMPublicCommonSearchServices/DisplayDCTMContent?documentId=090000168045bb52

Because as many people mentioned above, for most people here it’s not a yes/no question but a “yes to this degree of proficiency” question. And our speaking ability is often lower than our listening comprehension anyway (which is normal).

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Completely agree with what @xplo said.

Personally I think that as soon as you’re able to express yourself and make others understand you based on what you say (not using your hands and feet ;)), then you are able to speak a language. It may not be great or elegant but it’s functional.

Of course then there’s different levels of being able to speak a language, some are closer to sounding native than others.

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My 2 yen: It depends on the context, and the depth of the conversation. My sister asked me this very question a few days ago and I answered “I can speak enough to hold a basic conversation with a Japanese person”, but even this statement is only true given certain circumstances. If we’re talking about the weather, where a certain shop is, what a person likes, I can speak. If we’re discussing nuclear physics - not a hope. I think it’s valid to say you can speak a language as long as you provide accurate context for the depth of the ability.

The other day I had an extended text conversation with a JP person on HT, simply about bathing culture, but I understood 95% of it without needing to check anything, and it felt great. But that was pretty basic, and there was no speaking involved, only comprehension and composition. My listening and speaking skills are much worse I’d say. Can I still “speak” Japanese? I’d say so.

If you can communicate a few essential basic ideas to a Japanese person standing right in front of you, and understand basic information from them, I think that’s the starting point of saying you can speak a language. Just always with a caveat.

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On the other hand, in the midst of a conversation on a specialized topic like that, would you be able to signal that you don’t understand the terminology, and ask for clarifications? And, if explained in more everyday terms, would you then be able to follow?

I think that’s worth considering. Even speakers with a high degree of proficiency or fluency – or heck, even native speakers, if they haven’t spent time with the topic – are going to feel out of water with highly specialized terms.

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Well, that’s one extra line on my cv then. :crazy_face:

Different story, but that’s not the first time I see people mentioning Osaka-ben or Kansai-ben as some kind of better version of Japanese. Why?? I’d say extra bonus point if you can say those in Tsugaru-ben.

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Well, at least among Japanese people, you’re probably going to get a better reaction from using Kansai-ben.

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My own rule of thumb:

  • Mention ability to speak Japanese on resume for embellishment and hope it doesn’t become necessary for crazy situations at work. I know enough Japanese where if the employer said at an interview, “okay, speak some Japanese to me”, I can speak off the cuff.
  • Anyone else asks if I can speak Japanese, I say “somewhat, but I’m learning”

Never failed me!

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Well, that may be true in Kansai, indeed. But here in Tokyo, I think people would just be confused. :thinking:

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Kansai-ben is pretty much universally understood, though, no? Even in Tokyo, they get plenty of exposure to it through media. I’m not sure the same would be true for other regional dialects, which one could argue are “equally legitimate” to learn, but aren’t going to be known to as many people.

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