I’m pretty new to WaniKani (~3 weeks in, just hit level 3 today). I’m loving it so far and will definitely be getting a Premium subscription once I complete L3
Shortly after I learned hiragana and katakana, and just before I picked up WaniKani, I wanted to try my hand at learning a bit of grammar. Only problem: this was incredibly frustrating, slow and tedious without knowing any kanji. I was using Tae Kim’s Guide to Japanese Grammar which is (by my extremely limited knowledge) a well-regarded resource. While I could loosely understand what I was reading, it all felt a little foggy and nebulous since I could only make out about half of the characters in any given example used.
Conversely, I picked up WaniKani and that, by comparison, was much clearer and more enjoyable, and I felt like things were making sense. I then decided I’d get a little farther into WaniKani before trying again with grammar, but now I don’t know at what point I’ve learned “enough” to be able to study grammar semi-comfortably.
To that end, I’d like to ask - to anyone else in my position (WK first for a bit, then grammar), what WaniKani level did you reach before you started grammar?
Thank you!
P.S. I imagine this might be a question others have asked before. If so, I apologize profusely. Moderators - please feel free to delete this topic if I have done so. Thanks!
I finished N5 and was working on N4 BEFORE I started Wanikani.
Tae Kim’s guide is okay. You do nothing wrong if you use it. If you need something more structured to not run into the same problem with example sentences being too hard, you could also look into Tobira Beginner/Genki 1/Minna no Nihongo. All of these are books that assume only Kana as prior knowledge.
They are made mostly for the classroom setting, though. Therefore, I don’t know how applicable the situations/vocabulary is for you. Plus, some exercises can’t be properly done without a partner.
Still a solid recommendation from me.
There are other options for grammar as well. Some like Cure Dolly on YouTube. And app based grammar like BunPro or Human Japanese exists as well.
Personally, I wouldn’t wait too long to start grammar. I feel it’s an easy mistake to get comfortable with the SRS and not work on the areas that actually need improvements (be it grammar, listening, reading comprehension, writing practice). Also, basic grammar is absolutely essential to do anything remotely useful with the language.
I know some people waited until lvl10 or lvl20 with grammar though
But to give a more useful answer, I learned basic grammar alongside kanji in a course. If Tae Kim is too difficult, there are loads of other wonderful resources for learning grammar such as:
People talk about studying grammar, but I prefer to think about studying Japanese–vocab, listening, speaking, reading, and yes grammar.
I started a listen and repeat audio course at the same time that I started wanikani. It lasted two years, doing one or two lessons each day. It was really a good foundation and helped with the wanikani vocab. I liked that I could just listen/repeat/review each chapter and not have to make a lesson plan for myself. And I could look up grammar when I needed it in Tae Kim or Cure Dolly or at this site https://pomax.github.io/nrGrammar/
I used mango languages online which was free from my local library in the USA but maybe similar courses are just as good or better. Mango includes brief grammar descriptions.
Zero, I guess? I started with bunpro (grammar and vocab) and am in the middle of N3 right now and also do read quite a bit of native material (mostly manga with furigana). I’m planning on adding kanji soon, but honestly there was no need for that in the beginning as all easy reading materials come with furigana.
Some basic vocab is more important than kanji when learning grammar as those are the building blocks of sentences. Kanji is only for writing and reading, but you can totally learn listening and talking completely without kanji (not the most recommended, though).
OK, so reading every reply here so far, it seems like I’ve missed the mark completely LOL
I guess I should probably give grammar another go ASAP then, perhaps using different resources. Thank you so much everyone for your thoughtful replies and for helping me on the right path <3
I would say it is more “considered good if your requirements include ‘must be freely available on the internet’”. If you must have something that is free (which is fair enough, we don’t all have unlimited budgets for this hobby!) then your choices are limited and Tae Kim is an OK option in a small field. If you have budget for paid options, some of the popularly recommended textbooks are likely more structured to make getting started easier, include exercises, and probably also try to include vocabulary lists.
You have not missed anything, by doing one lesson a week, you can finish Genki 1 (N5) in 3 months, and then the same for Genki 2 (N4) it’s very quick! I did not start until level 8-ish
The only way to “miss the mark” is to not do it at all, to me it seems like you are doing great by asking this question and starting already!
I suggest Tokini Andy Genki 1 videos and using a workbook (free ones too)
Zero. I was 2-3 chapters into Genki I before I started Wanikani because learning the vocab from the lists at the end of each chapter was noticeably less effective than learning the grammar itself.
You can certainly start Wanikani from day 7 or whatever (basically - after you’ve learned hiragana) but I wouldn’t wait to start grammar until any specific wanikani level. Like I’d do N5 alongside your first 10 or so levels in Wanikani, and then after that look into mixing some beginner reading material (something like NHK Easy News or the manga read in the Absolute Beginner club on this forum) into your rotation.
Another resource not listed you could try is Game Gengo. He has a playlist ordered to go along the Genki textbook, but you can actually use them directly even if you don’t have the textbook.
Just wanna add, as apps go I found LingoDeer very helpful for learning grammar & vocab.
https://imabi.org/ is also a good one if you like going for a deep dive. Looks of examples there too. I’d skip the first few introductory lessons, if you try it - since they’re basically general background iirc
Personally, I started both after learning kana (alongside vocab with anki).
I read Tae Kim’s Guide for a little bit, but had the same problem as you (I had to learn lots of vocab I didn’t know). I watched some Cure Dolly videos and that gave me a good baseline, and now I’m doing bunpro to hammer down the concepts.
If you think about it, you can start reading native content pretty early, even with zero kanji knowledge, as long as you can read kana, since manga aimed at younger audiences or graded readers include furigana. Waiting to study grammar just makes it harder to understand what you’re reading, so it’s better to start grammar ASAP instead of holding off for a certain WaniKani level
Started wani kani after i was already two textbooks in. I’m using Japanese from zero and was on book 3 by the time I started wani kani. It was well worth it and now I’m focusing on wani kani trying to get ready for Japanese from zero 5 and tobira. I think I’d rather have a high grammar level than a wani kani level but as long as you get far enough it will work itself out.
I have found WaniKani along with many other resources on the internet, like Tae Kim (and also Tofugu). I had doubt with WaniKani method, so didn’t start it immediately.
And ofc, Japanese isn’t my first foreign language, English is. That influences my view of foreign language learning.
I would rather start with runes (Kana), following by grammar chapters with vocab lists alongside.
I did have problems with remembering vocab lists in each chapter, couldn’t manage to like Anki, but somehow I bit through without SRS. (SRS options - jpdb.io, Bunpro vocab, Anki shared decks, Kitsun.io)
A few years later, I stuck somewhere between N5-N4, and I decided that I have time to allocate to Japanese learning, only then that I decided to do WaniKani. (and also with speedy mindset)
imo, if you need to be fast, maybe a method like WaniKani first for a few levels could would, but if not so, grammar first like other foreign languages can’t be a bad choice. Also, even if you tried to be fast, there is no guarantee that you will be successful and not burn out. And even if you succeed, there would easily be unknown paths ahead. Japanese language is the goal, not the learning program.
I started Wanikani and seriously studying grammar at the same time. I struggled to find a way to stick with grammar for YEARS so I understand the frustration with Tae Kim!!! I think it’s nicely organized and useful, but to me it was so tedious and not very motivating.
I’ve realized that SRS like WK really work for me because of the constant reviews throughout the day, like it’s always on my mind, you know? By this I don’t mean that I literally do the reviews each hour without fail lol but I’m always 〜aware that I should be thinking about Japanese and that at some point i MUST do the reviews or they will pile up.
Because of that, my best resource has been Bunpro as it works the exact same way as WK. I recommend you give it a try, their trial is 1-2 months long so you really get to see if you like it.
I started with bunpro (grammar and vocab) and am in the middle of N3 right now and also do read quite a bit of native material (mostly manga with furigana). I’m planning on adding kanji soon, but honestly there was no need for that in the beginning as all easy reading materials come with furigana.
so I understand the frustration with Tae Kim!!! I think it’s nicely organized and useful, but to me it was so tedious and not very motivating.