Week 4 葬送のフリーレン ・Frieren 🧝‍♂️ (Beginner Book Club)

勝手 is one of these words that’s often tricky to translate (都合 is another one…) but I think the page you link had the important part: 自分にとっての状態のよさ

In this case I think he’s just highlighting his own lack of familiarity with the process: “Being a monk I don’t really understand how to do this by myself” with 勝手 being the “doing this by myself” or “doing this my own way” part.

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勝手has a secondary meaning, too. From Jisho:

  1. surroundings; environment; way of doing things​

君もこの手の仕事は初めてなんだろう. 勝手がわかるまではマニュアル通りにやっておいたほうがいいよ - It’s your first time doing this kind of work. You should follow the manual exactly until you get more experience

With that in mind, I think the sentence is easier to translate as just ‘I’m a monk, so I don’t really know how to do it/how it’s done/how it all works.’ :slight_smile:

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The literal meaning of her name is also relevant to one of her character traits later on. Like everyone else :smile:

I figure this one specifically is far-fetched enough that I can say that without it being a spoiler

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heh

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No mimic this week

But book-trapped!
image

Happy cake day @Gorbit99 !

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p.46

This is probably a silly question but 「そうですか。では別の頼みを。」this is the first time I’ve come across a sentence ending with を (this book is the first thing I’ve tried to read outside of graded readers). Is this just a sentence fragment? Is this meant to imply the Heiter is trailing off? Is Heiter trying to be polite here?

p.51

Frieren says to Fern 「ハイターもわかってんじゃん。」Could someone give me some context on the じゃん at the end? I’m having trouble looking it up but it seems to be a casual version of ending a thought with ね?.

Also, is it going to be an ongoing bit that Frieren talks very casually while Fern talks extremely politely? I usually have trouble understanding casual speech, but Fern seems to have wrapped around to being so polite that I’m sometimes struggling with her as well, haha.

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p46

It’s fairly common in Japanese, that someone wouldn’t complete a sentence, that you can get the ending of. For example this is “(Let me ask you) another request then.”

p51

It’s short for じゃないですか?
“Isn’t it?”
Just way more casual.

Yep, Fern is uberpolite. You’ll do fine with casual speech eventually, it’s probably most of the spoken part of Japanese anyways.

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thoughts on Heiter

something I’ve been pondering and don’t know quite how to put -

Frieren calls Heiter 生臭坊主 and Heiter made the cynical comment in Ch 1 that he only joined the party to improve his chances at a good salvation/afterlife. So far I’ve taken this all as a running joke, but this week, Frieren’s comment on P 44 made me wonder if that’s really true:

らしくないね
進んで人助けするようなたち質じゃないでじょ
Jintor’s translation from above: “That is quite unusual for you, I did not think you were that kind of person to continue to help another person.”

That just sounds… too rude to be joking, but on the other hand, if it was true, it’s just a bit confusing in terms of his role in their party and as her close friend. So I have just been pondering whether or not it’s obvious (yet) if this is a running joke vs him actually being a 生臭坊主.

I’m not asking for a spoiler into the future, but more some insight / thoughts about how you all are taking this with what we’ve read so far.

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imho it’s just party banter

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that’s how I’ve been taking it, but it just nags on me for some reason - thanks!

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i feel like because of the way frieren is panelled everything comes off as a bit overly serious even when it’s light. i think it’s more apparent in the anime that they’re just kidding around

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thoughts on Heiter

I agree that it’s party banter, not an actually rude comment. The way I look at it, there is quite a big difference between what Heiter says and what he actually feels: he has crafted a very different persona with jokes and not taking anything seriously. Now that he’s actually and openly taking in an orphan, Frieren calls him out on it. It’s not actually out of character for him, but it is out of character for the way he’s been presenting. Frieren knows that it’s mostly an act, so there’s no actual menace in calling him out like that.

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although he is, genuinely, a 生臭坊主, for the drinking at least if nothing else

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Tbh the manga shows it too, there’s no way Frieren would be (maybe next week spoilers, I read ahead again) sticking around to translate a tome for him for 6 years so she can hopefully save his life if she were serious about him being a terrible human being.

And Heiter really isn’t very priestly in a lot of ways, not just the drinking - (much later story spoilers) even his motivations for joining the hero party aren’t entirely pure, even if the “better afterlife” bit is certainly a joke.

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nice thoughts, glad I asked!

Heiter replies

yes - that’s it, I think that is what is catching me out here - her total deadpan delivery

nice framing, that really pulls it together, thanks

I didn’t read your spoilers, but yeah, I guess I could have trusted my instinct that it was a joke because if she really thought he was a terrible person he wouldn’t be a close friend. Being an irreverent priest on the other hand… could have some advantages, like the scene in the church when he and Eisen break out their dance to support Frieren was really sweet.

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I feel like you’re overestimating just how long a period of time six years is for Frieren, while also underestimating her desire to get her hands on random tomes of magic. There’s a reason that Heiter’s request is specifically “can you translate this here book for me?” :stuck_out_tongue:

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That’s fair, but in conversation with him across those six years, there’s only ever mention of her progress on finding immortality or something similar. It’s pretty clear she cares beyond her normal “yay random magic” hobby :smile: Not to mention her bawling when he dies, of course, but that comes later

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Heiter and Frieren characterisation

So I think there’s a few things going on here. The first is that Heiter has sort of been established as not being the traditional virtuous priest - he’s very cynical, he’s a heavy drinker, he’s not responsible. There’s also that raising a kid that’s not even yours is a big undertaking. You can sort of see the stereotypical symbol of virtuosity that a priest would be seen as in the fantasy period as being the kind to make the sacrifice. But we know Heiter isn’t that (it’s not even clear to me that Heiter believes his own religion despite being a senior priest in the funeral scene). So it is a bit surprising that he’s made that sacrifice, and that can be true without him being a bad person or expected to be.

There’s also a bit of a play that Frieren has been portrayed as pretty socially inept to this point. She’s not been very observant of people (see her lack of understanding of human lifespan) or frankly even of her own feelings (see how surprised she was at her own reaction to Himmel, or of Eizen being too old to swing an axe now). So there’s a bit of emphasis of how much Heiter must have been contrary to the priestly stereotype for Frieren to notice, and also of how blunt Frieren is that she just says it straight out. There’s also a sort of illustration that Heiter is much more of a people person than Frieren, in that he understands that and just sort of laughs it off.

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