Tips for Running a WaniKani Book Club

[Phryne]

I stole this one from @jhol:

• I’m reading along (I’ve read no further than the end of this week’s section)
• I’ll catch up soon (I haven’t yet finished last week’s section)
• I’ve read this book already but I’m here for discussion
• I have no intention of catching up or the club has already finished, but I’m using the forums as reference
• I’m reading ahead (I’ve read beyond the end of this week’s section)

I also think we should include @jhol’s spoiler guidelines. And I like having the most pertinent information in a standardised little table

[polv]

Well, the reason I mentioned more choices, is I think it might be better to add

• I am late to the party.

That is, you click the poll after the eligible reading period. Also, it is possible to change individual’s poll choice.

Otherwise, what do you think about closing the poll? What about catching up, but 1. going to read 2. currently reading 3. finished late?

Also, would you poll late comers? What about using as reference / revival? Would you want to know who has experience reading at the end of the day?

[Phryne]

Ahhh, we’re not supposed to click the poll anymore when we’re late? I’ve just been click click clicking away at old book club polls when I read the books

[NicoleIsEnough]

I must confess that I’m always confused by these two options:

@Phryne

• I’ve read this book already but I’m here for discussion
• I’m reading ahead

“I’m reading ahead” is (I think) when I haven’t yet finished the book. That sounds the least confusing to me. But “I’ve read this book already” sounds like it happened some years ago, or maybe in another language, or something. So what if I started with the club, then read ahead and finished the book early? I’m never sure what to pick then…

[NicoleIsEnough]

@polv

Otherwise, what do you think about closing the poll? Would you poll late comers? What about catching up, but 1. going to read 2. currently reading 3. finished late? What about using as reference / revival?

I don’t close my polls. In my mind the bookclub runs forever, so I also don’t use “finished late”. I either finished or not. When that happens is of no importance to me.

Also I change my status during the week, which is something many people don’t seem to do? What about that?

@Phryne

Ahhh, we’re not supposed to click the poll anymore when we’re late? I’ve just been click click clicking away at old book club polls when I read the books

Yeah, same here. For me the polls are rather an indicator of my personal progress within the book than some situation at some given date. But different people see that differently (we had a few discussions about this already.) Which is totally fine by me, I just wanted to mention as well how I handle it.

[Phryne]

@NicoleIsEnough

For me the polls are rather an indicator of my personal progress within the book than some situation at some given date.

Same. I feel like when I’ve read through a week’s worth, I deserve to click that poll dammit

[omk3]

@NicoleIsEnough

I must confess that I’m always confused by these two options:

@Phryne

• I’ve read this book already but I’m here for discussion
• I’m reading ahead

I’m always confused by these too, and also never know whether I should be updating my status during the week or not.

I guess for readers at the time of the bookclub, the pertinent information is:

• I’m reading along but haven’t reached this week’s section yet.
• I’m currently reading this week’s section
• I’ve completed this week’s section (update status when applicable)
• I’m reading ahead
• I’ve finished the book

For the last one, as @NicoleIsEnough said, I think it’s irrelevant if I just finished it or I finished it ten years ago.

Then an additional option for latecomers:

• I’m reading this after the book club has finished

just so that latecomers can mark participation too.

[polv]

@omk3

• I’m reading along but haven’t reached this week’s section yet.

How about, I am going to read this week’s section soon without mentioning the reading along part.

I also now think that polls shouldn’t be closed.

[omk3]

“Reading along” shows that the person voting is actively reading the book, and is just a little behind the club’s schedule. “I’m going to read this week’s section soon” could mean anything, from “I haven’t even started” or “I’ll start reading in a couple of years” to “I’m only half a page behind and catching up in a matter of minutes”. I don’t think participation polls need to record intention, just actual participation.

[NicoleIsEnough]

@omk3

• I’ve completed this week’s section (update status when applicable)
• I’m reading ahead
• I’ve finished the book

In how far does it matter to you how much somebody reads ahead? For me these are all the same tbh. (especially in the last week they all collapse into one, no? )

@omk3

Then an additional option for latecomers:

• I’m reading this after the book club has finished

just so that latecomers can mark participation too.

What is the information that is contained in this option for you?

For me, the time when something takes place is automatically given by the time when I look at the poll. So I see these polls as providing the following information:

• For a given weekly (or whatever) thread, this thread describes a chunk of text from the book.
• I want to know: Is the person (who filled in the poll) (A) before or (B) in or (C) after this chunk of text?
• Additionally, it is nice to know whether (D) somebody lost interest and abandoned the book.

And that’s it

When I look at the poll during the reading week, I can see how “up to date” people are in the club. If I look at the poll at a later time, I can see how many people (ever since) managed to read up to this chunk. But I don’t see that it’s relevant whether they did this during the book club or later.

[polv]

It may be important to mention that poll’s answer can be changed.

Otherwise, what is the suggestion now? Perhaps

• I’m reading right now
• I’ve finished the chapter
• I’m going to read

Almost the same as Bookmeter, I guess.

And perhaps one more option?

• I’m dropping out

---

Not sure degree of ahead-ness matters. Maybe it does sometimes, like finished the whole arc, or finished the whole series, rather than a little ahead.

[NicoleIsEnough]

@polv

It may be important to mention that poll’s answer can be changed.

That’s what I do.

@polv

Otherwise, what is the suggestion now? Perhaps

• I’m reading right now
• I’ve finished the chapter
• I’m going to read

Almost the same as Bookmeter, I guess.

And perhaps one more option?

• I’m dropping out

That’s exactly what I’m using:

[omk3]

@NicoleIsEnough

In how far does it matter to you how much somebody reads ahead? For me these are all the same tbh. (especially in the last week they all collapse into one, no? )

Well, in the first week’s poll, there’s no reason to include the “I’m behind” option, and in the last week’s poll, “I’ve completed this week’s section”, “I’m reading ahead” and “I’ve finished the book” are all one and the same.

It doesn’t especially matter to me how far somebody reads ahead, but it may matter to them to click “finished” instead of “ahead” when they’re done. It might also become relevant in discussions regarding the whole book, although that can be clarified in comments.

As for the latecomers, I never like to click polls of completed bookclubs unless there’s an option for latecomers specifically. Otherwise I just mark “finished the book” at the last poll. I feel that otherwise the poll is a snapshot of that time and I’d be skewing it. I also wouldn’t like to appear like I read along in real time yet never commented (that’s just me though).

So, in summary, here’s what I think the poll options I proposed offer:

• I’m reading along but haven’t reached this week’s section yet.

I may be behind schedule but I still want to appear active and mark participation. I may catch up soon, or I may not. I won’t be participating in this week’s discussion as it’s full of spoilers for me.

• I’m currently reading this week’s section

I still want to avoid spoilers and may not be able to answer questions that I otherwise might answer because I haven’t read the whole thing yet. But I’m interested in discussion up to wherever I’ve read.

• I’ve completed this week’s section (update status when applicable)

Nothing discussed here is a spoiler to me any more, and I may answer questions if I can. My posts imply full knowledge of this week’s section.

• I’m reading ahead

I know stuff that those reading along don’t. I can’t properly join in speculation discussions because I’d spoil things.

• I’ve finished the book

Hurray!

• I’m reading this after the book club has finished

I just want to mark my participation but also not skew the image of the book club as it was in real time. I may post several years later, or not post at all, but it’s still nice to put my name up there.

---

Of course you may argue that that’s too much detail.
In which case, the participation poll could be reduced to:

• I’m still reading (yes/no)

And in the final week:

• I finished the book (yes/no)

[polv]

In that case, it’s important to be explicit that latecomers should (or should not) click the poll.

Otherwise, just close the poll when necessary.

[NicoleIsEnough]

@omk3

Well, in the first week’s poll, there’s no reason to include the “I’m behind” option

In my template, in the first week I use “I’m planning to catch up later” instead of “I’m behind”.

@omk3

it may matter to them to click “finished” instead of “ahead” when they’re done.

I see. Like I pointed out before, these options confused me a lot (e.g. in the 地球星人 book club) and I never knew what to answer. I think the wording is important here. Saying “I finished” instead of “I already read” would make this a lot easier for me.

@omk3

I feel that otherwise the poll is a snapshot of that time and I’d be skewing it.

Yes, that’s the other perspective on these polls. I think that both options are totally valid viewpoints, but when you and I are in a book club together, I will likely destroy that snapshot
and then what?

@omk3

Of course you may argue that that’s too much detail.

Oh, not at all! Other book club hosts even exclude the “I’ve finished this week’s section” checkbox but I found this incredibly helpful for my own organization because this way I could track where I was in a given book club (at a time when I read multiple clubs in parallel, and not always in the prescribed timeslots )

[omk3]

@NicoleIsEnough

@omk3

I feel that otherwise the poll is a snapshot of that time and I’d be skewing it.

Yes, that’s the other perspective on these polls. I think that both options are totally valid viewpoints, but when you and I are in a book club together, I will likely destroy that snapshot
and then what?

Yes, but if there was a clear option for latecomers to mark participation, wouldn’t you click that instead?

A safer way would be to close the “real-time” poll after each week is done, and add another, always-open poll for future readers. But I don’t think it’s important enough to be worth the trouble.

[MissDagger]

Just to add another voice about voting in polls as late comer. I never vote more or less, because if I’m not reading with the club then it feels disingenuous to say “I’m reading along”, along with who? Myself?

Again, wording matter. Something like “I’m currently reading this part/week’s pages” doesn’t imply a time element of reading at the same time as the club was active, while still indicating that you are reading that specific portion of the book.

Nowadays, I just skip over the poll if I’m not reading with a club because I’m unlikely to find an option I feel comfortable picking. I’d love a “I’m reading this as a later comer”, but probably some other wording. Because I wouldn’t mind showing I’ve read the book and used the threads.

But it would probably be easier to make sure the wording in the original options don’t imply reading it at the time of the book club (which “reading along” says to me at least), thereby making it more comfortable for later comers to also pick an option in the poll. (Although, I’m not sure I’d vote still because I also see it more as a snapshot, but if the wording changed maybe my opinion would change too.)

[NicoleIsEnough]

@omk3

Yes, but if there was a clear option for latecomers to mark participation, wouldn’t you click that instead?

I guess I would click the latecomers options while reading it, and I would switch to “I finished this section” when I finished it
(because that’s what I want to track in the threads, whether I’ve read a given week already or not. Just for me personally…)

@MissDagger

“I’m reading along”

I take this to mean “I’m reading along the section” more or less.

Ok, I need to draw this. So the black line is the book, divided into sections.

Let’s say we are in the yellow section. I want to know whether I’m at A, B or C relative to the yellow section (i.e. this thread’s reading). Once upon a time this thread’s reading chunk also coincided with things happening in a given week, but in the grand scheme of things this is irrelevant to me. But the book’s section will be there forever. And so the important information in the poll is the location in the book wrt the current thread’s section, ultimately.

Or, to put it in the words of a person who is much more skilled in this:

Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so.

[omk3]

That’s interesting, actually. So it seems you’re primarily using the participation poll as a sort of bookmark, while I mainly use it to show others whether I’m available for discussion on the book or not (more or less), and as a personal celebration when I finish it. Maybe we should go back to basics and discuss what the purpose of the participation poll even is?
Joking aside, I’m sure the poll can be useful in many different ways, as we’ve already seen. The question is, how can we keep the options clear and easily distinguishable, and also maximize the poll’s usefulness?

[seanblue]

@NicoleIsEnough

Also I change my status during the week, which is something many people don’t seem to do? What about that?

@omk3

I’ve completed this week’s section (update status when applicable)

For the record, I never change my vote and never say I finished the week’s section if I was reading along with the schedule. To me, this (type of) option is meant for people who were already finished the section by the time that week’s assignment began.

@NicoleIsEnough

I don’t close my polls. In my mind the bookclub runs forever, so I also don’t use “finished late”. I either finished or not. When that happens is of no importance to me.

I’m also in favor of never closing the polls. People can (and should) feel like they can vote in the polls months or years after the schedule completed.

@omk3

I just want to mark my participation but also not skew the image of the book club as it was in real time. I may post several years later, or not post at all, but it’s still nice to put my name up there.

Personally I don’t see the need for this. I think it just clutters the options. Honestly, I think even the options given in かがみの孤城 were too much (either too many or too wordy). I found it very difficult to find the option I wanted each week.

@omk3

Joking aside, I’m sure the poll can be useful in many different ways, as we’ve already seen. The question is, how can we keep the options clear and easily distinguishable, and also maximize the poll’s usefulness?

To me, the poll is primarily for during the book club. It’s not like we look historically at past book club activity. It’s so we can see if a lot of people are falling behind and we need to change the schedule. It’s so we can see how quickly a drop off occurred to maybe adjust for next book club to go slower. That kind of thing. In that sense, it’s not for people who come later, but if people who come later vote I don’t think there’s any harm.