The problem with the recent changes to kanji readings

Please stop changing the kanji readings to the kun’yomi. It’s seriously ruining WK. I’ve got a friend who’s just starting out and I regret that he’ll have to learn this new way you are changing everything to.

Why? Just why? WK alone has 18 vocabulary words that use the めい reading of this kanji. 明 is an incredibly common jukugo kanji. You may not see it this way, but you’re handicapping your learners’ Japanese reading ability by not having their minds immediately associate 明 with めい. Yeah sure, the word あかるい is a really common word, but that’s no excuse to teach 明 as あ. That’s not even a reading of the kanji, it’s just a weird vestigial cut off of the vocabulary that means nothing. My kanji dictionary doesn’t even list あ as a reading of 明.

These recent changes are taking the wrong approach to teaching reading kanji to non-Japanese speaking learners. These changes are focused on teaching vocabulary first to learners, but that’s not how kanji should be learned. WK users learning kanji are different than native Japanese students learning kanji because they don’t already have any foundational knowledge of vocabulary like Japanese kids would. For a Japanese child learning kanji, it makes sense to connect a vocabulary word they already know to a kanji first because that helps them connect the dots with the word and the kanji in their mind, and when they learn the on’yomi reading it’s again easier for them because they already know the jukugo words as well. A non-Japanese learner has extra steps in their learning process because they have to learn the on’yomi, kun’yomi, AND vocabulary using the kanji from scratch without any previous knowledge of the language. On one hand that is a tougher challenge, but at the same time it can be an advantage in a way as well. You can learn the kanji in a more formulaic fashion without the “baggage”.

So these changes are approaching this problem with an empasis on learning vocabulary, but WK isn’t primarily a vocabulary based learning app – it’s a kanji learning app. Of course that doesn’t mean you won’t learn vocabulary from WK, you definitely will, but when learning to actually read Japanese it’s far more effective to mainly associate a singular kanji with the on’yomi reading first, akin to a “pronunciaton”, and the kun’yomi as an exception with the vocabulary. Because even if a kun’yomi vocabulary word is commonly used, conflating a kanji with the vocabulary reading restricts our full understanding of that kanji.

That being said, there are cases of kanji whose on’yomi reading is so incredibly rarely used that even most Japanese people couldn’t tell you what it is. In these instances, sure go ahead and just teach us the kun’yomi reading. However these recent cases go far beyond that level, such as not teaching めい as the reading of 明.

Another problem these changes cause with the WK system is redundancy. The recent changes to the cardinal direction kanji are the perfect example. Why are we learning the kanji reading for 北 as きた? きた is the vocabulary word for north, not the reading of the kanji. Plenty of jukugo words use ほく, so that should be learned as the “pronunciation” of the kanji. Again, yeah maybe the vocabulary word “north” is much more commonly used in conversation, but learning that as the “reading” of the kanji is just incorrect. And to tie it back to redundancy, きた is taught to us anyways in the vocabulary 北, so why remove the also reasonably common ほく reading and double teach us きた?

These changes might be better for learning more Japanese vocabulary earlier on in the process, but for serious users with the long term goal of properly learning to read Japanese, they are counterproductive. The regularity of knowing you’re learning the “pronunciation”/on’yomi of the kanji first and vocabulary/kun’yomi second is a good system, so mixing it up willy-nilly harms long term reading ability. Learning to read Japanese takes time, and these WK kanji reading changes are messing with the foundations of the system.

I say this as someone who moved to Japan and have been living here for over 7 years, started learning kanji/Japanese with WK, am now farily comfortable reading Japanese manga/newspaper articles/etc, and also as a professional language teacher myself – WK works, and a large part of it was the on/kun distinction. Once you’re faced with Japanese in the real word and start encountering words you might not know, being familiar with kanji on’yomi, or “pronunciation” as I like to think of it, is not just incredibly helpful but also necessary to further your reading skills. When I’m out on the street and I see a jukugo word with 明, I know it’s going to be read めい which makes it easier for me to make an educated guess on the pronunciation or look it up in my dictionary. I wouldn’t be able to do that if my mind went to あ as the reading. Vocabulary and grammar can be learned and reinforced through other textbooks or learning systems, but WK’s primary focus is teaching kanji. It needs to stay the course and actually teach the kanji, not simplify the process for the sake of making a few vocabulary words easier in the short term.

At the end of the day though, sure, these changes aren’t the end of the world. If a user is truly dedicated to learning to read Japanese they’ll eventually learn the on’yomi and kun’yomi readings distincly. But you’re making their path in the long term harder unnecessarily by tampering with the core of the WK system. On as reading → Kun as vocab

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Looks like on wani kani itself most usages of this kanji in vocabulary seem to use めい over あ and searching it on a dictionary by あ doesn’t return it.

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I agree. Aside from a few kanji where the on’yomi is pretty much never used , it is far better to associate the “reading” to the on’yomi than the kun’yomi.

I hate whenever WK expects a kun’yomi when there’s a perfectly good on’yomi available. The whole point of learning a primary reading is to be able to take educated guesses when encountering words I don’t know.

But with kun’yomi, especially okurigana readings, those are used for a limited amount of vocabularies that are much easier to learn directly with the vocab.

The ‘reading’ should be for compound words, not okurigana words. Because those are the types of words where making an educated guess is useful.

I can somewhat accept 北 being taught as きた, as it isn’t okurigana and is used in a lot of compound words. But having it 明 as the あ in 明かり is so unbelievably dumb that if such changes keep happening, I won’t be able to recommend WK in good conscience. Whoever on the team decided this was a good decision should honestly just take a really long vacation. It’s that bad of a decision that clearly they’re not thinking right and need a break.

To explain with an example,
This is the full listing for 明, the あ reading is for -k based okurigana (明かり、明ける、明かす) and their conjugations (明いた).

So if I see a compound word that actually uses the あ reading like this

The reason I know it’s an あ reading is because of the very obvious okurigana け

Same with 明け方, or 明くる年, there is no guessing needed, the okurigana for the basic vocab gives it away.

So the only time I would need the kanji reading to help would be for compound words with no okurigana like 明文化. And since あ is an okurigana only reading, then it’s mostly pointless to guess あ. It’ll either be めい or みょう most of the time - especially めい.

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Agreed. I keep being told that the on’yomi is not the kanji reading wanted. So, they want, あか for 赤. Plus, you get the message that they just changed the kanji reading like for 東 to higashi. But, knowing tou is a lot more useful. Most of us know this one anyway because of 東京, but the change is just weird. So, do I have to keep a list of common on’yomi reading or will wanikani eventually get around to teaching this.

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Jisho lists あ as the third reading among many others for 明.

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I 100% agree and especially for these truncated readings that make no sense and nobody should learn. It’s like learning the word “bright” as “bri” first and then add the “ght” later. Complete waste of time and actually a disservice for kanji with multiple kun.

明 is also a phonetic component in kanji like 盟, but WaniKani persists in ignoring those completely too which is also really stupid IMO.

I don’t see it. And even if it exists it’s niche enough to be irrelevant to this discussion, that’s clearly not what WaniKani intends to teach here.

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My biggest pet peeve for a while now is how the Purple/Pink background that is supposed to indicate use Onyomi/Kunyomi is completely irrelevant to what they actually want, the answer they want is random always.

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I agree. めい is very common in 明 and “the season kanjis” for example 秋、冬、夏 and 春 should be しゅう、とう、か and しゅん. For example, we have words like 春夏秋冬 (しゅんかしゅうとう).

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I am really hoping they take this feedback because sincerely speaking when I signed up for WK I did with the notion that I will be learning kanji onyomi readings. The recent content changes where these were changed to kunyomi was simply dishonest and a disservice as pointed out. Kanji should typically be taught in their Onyomi readings except in the very rare cases where they are non-existent.

As pointed out by the OP, knowing the onyomi reading helps with being able to recognise and read (jukugo) words as you can simply make a guess as to what the reading would be. This was the case for me in Japan, where I saw different words and could immediately read them because I knew the onyomi reading of the kanji components of the words.

I plead that these recent and not so recent changes be reverted and further plans to make such changes be scrapped.

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Have y’all submitted your complaints formally via https://www.wanikani.com/contact? I seem to get more traction through that when I request stuff.

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I’ve gone ahead and highlighted this discussion for our content team, so no need to write in this particular time, but in general yes that’s the best way to get our attention!

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Thanks for your attention to this discussion. I’m really passionate about WK and recommend it to everyone and anyone looking for a way to start learning Japanese, but I believe these changes are a step in the wrong direction. As someone whose been through the system (I reset my level not long ago) I know it works, and I also know how incredibly important it is to have the on’yomi readings firm in your mind when you move on and look to start improving your reading skills in the real world.

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Because idk the common reading for a kanji/vocab im here (╯‵□′)╯︵┻━┻
(i imagewk)

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Which dictionary app is this? It looks nice.

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I think it’s Shirabe Jisho.

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Thanks! It looks neat. It’s free too, but seems like ios only. I have iPad, but I have android phone. I think I don’t use ipad to look up words as often.

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Yes, it’s iOS only. For Android, I’d recommend Japanese Dictionary Takoboto. Another one I find neat but yet to use is Jotoba.

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Hi, Takoboto is basically the same thing, like @codejockie mentioned. It’s great! Here’s the kanji panel for 明 on my Android device. Also gives you the SKIP code if you use the Kodansha Kanji Learners’ Dictionary.

@TofuguKyle thank you, much appreciated for highlighting this for the content team. After reading this well thought out OP and the discussion in this thread, then thinking about my own journey with WK (which I love and recommend to everyone I meet on the same Japanese learning journey), I now also feel strongly that this change is a step in the wrong direction.

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Adding my voice of agreement.
On top of all that has been said above, I also submit that the inconsistency in selecting onyomi or kunyomi as the primary reading taught for kanji is a problem in itself, often making it more difficult for me to remember which is which. Specifically, when a kanji is first presented with the kunyomi reading, I am much more likely to struggle with subsequent vocab words, because my brain defaults to thinking of the first reading taught as the onyomi reading (as it should be).

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I hope this fix doesn’t take a long time. I just hit the kanji 取 and of course the kanji reading is とwhich is just unhelpful. Most people are more tech savvy than I am, so for me a preprogrammed learning method has some usefulness at least so far…. I think if I was more tech savvy I wouldn’t be using wanikani.

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