Strategizing Japanese for using at work

Hi everyone! My name is Ian, I’m a Nikkei-Canadian. A month ago, I started working at a Japanese engineering company and automotive supplier. I survived a Japanese Language minor 10 years ago, but Genki I and II and not a lot of speaking practice did not do very well for preparing me for a job like this. My Japanese environment is essentially a lot of work emails (which I can sort of read with the help of Jisho etc.) but I struggle to keep up with office conversation and end up sounding more like a caveman most of the time.

I really am hoping to strategize my studying to be more efficient. I have about 2-3 hours or more at least at my desk to work on passive studying techniques.

Currently:
I found a website called Genki Study Tools, which I was using to diagnose gaps in my Japanese grammar. I started from Lesson 1 and have been working my way up very slowly as I peruse my old textbooks. Because I’m not always looking at my Genki book though, I question how practical it is beyond practice and diagnosing myself.

I’ve been mining some car maker websites for critical vocab that I will need to eventually understand. This one proved super useful. While I didn’t really have success with Anki in the past, I did decide to make some very simple decks that I could eventually practice once I know how to set Anki up. In theory, I could group words by their mechanical function, or the specific part of the process I’m likely to encounter them, because my company sells parts and machinery for these processes.

Speaking Japanese:
My office is roughly 50/50 English speakers and employees sent from Japan, and my department and supervisors are Japanese. I am often sitting in meetings where Japanese makes up at least 50% of the total speech. There really is no shortage of speaking opportunities, so that’s just chugging along slowly. My coworker is also learning English at the same pace as I am learning Japanese, so that has helped in a lot of ways as I learn how to explain things.

Reading and Writing:
My coworkers graciously provided me with templates for what to write in Japanese business emails for introductions, conclusions, etc. Wani Kani will eventually pay off for reading the many technical documents, drawings, and untranslated powerpoints that I get (as I understand, technical Japanese has the “be able to read it, not write it” demand of kanji), although for now it’s still being chucked into Google Translate line for line if I’m personally given a copy. After years of Genki though, I feel that I am still only able to communicate comfortably (not looking anything up) in basic-ish sentences, and have a hard time reading full passages even at a child’s level. That being said, if I have my Sticky Notes vocab primer next to me, I can write in emails fairly well.

Immersion?
I generally find that my brain is tired after bilingual work, so sometimes watching Japanese language stuff after a long day can be a big ask. I do consume Japanese media, though it tends to be less anime (I don’t even know where to start watching). I started watching the Japanese dub of For All Mankind, which has turned out to be pretty useful for some engineer speak.

What can I be doing better? Long story short, my understanding of grammar seems to be okay if I am forced to use it, but my vocab is slowly building back up, and I would like to at least be able to read at a child’s level within the year. Is there something that will help me just grow more comfortable with reading and listening comprehension that I’m not already doing? Any advice is super helpful.

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Irodori might be a better resource for you than Genki. It’s based on the JF Standard Can-Do methodology, which is where you study based on tasks you want to be able to do in the language. So instead of learning some engineering and business vocab but not knowing how to use it, you study in a way so you “can read and understand a short, simple note such as where someone is and when he/she will return, written on, for example, a message board at the workplace” (and other tasks like that). Even if those Can-Dos aren’t for engineering-specific things, that way of studying the language might be more beneficial for you.

DeepL is considered to be more accurate than Google Translate (although still not perfect)

LearnNatively is very popular here for finding easy things to read/watch in Japanese! Basically the lower the number, the easier the language is to understand for a language learner.

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Wow you must be exhausted coming home every day!

This is doable from where you are and I can say that having done it from a lower level. I wasn’t particularly interested in efficiency, but maybe that rather gives you consolation that if you do it more or better then you will get further. The headline was, read every day without fail, building up from 1400 to 2200 characters per day average (7-11 minutes at natural spoken speed) . Just estimate it… I don’t mean to count characters…

I went from Genki I almost Ii/ graded reader level to a comfortable 3rd to 4th grade level in a year like that. I’ve seen several people here who put in more time get further so I’m not an outlier.

My home post of my study log explains the headlines of what I learned. I’m guessing reading prose will be better than manga for you, I’ve certainly found prose way more time effective for expanding my vocab.

What I read page, but I’d say guide it by your own interests

Good luck and enjoy!

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Wow, Irodori sounds great! I’m definitely considering chucking Genki for something new. besides the morale issue that comes with “I’ve already done this,” I like the focus on “foreigners needing to operate in a Japanese environment” that it seems to provide. Do you have much experience with it and how it played out for you learning Japanese?

The engineering side tends to lean more towards specific vocabulary, some of which (but mostly not) is just katakana for English and German words. However, I appreciate some of the children-focused sites I’ve been given, because it sounds like it might be more important to learn base-level science class words before getting really into the weeds with industrial terms. If I’m at my desk, seems like I can just keep my Sticky Notes list up on a screen if I can’t read something in the text.

Do you have any recommendations for raw vocab learning and retention? I was very tentatively considering picking Anki plus the famed Core2K deck back up, but I know people can have very strong opinions about it in the context of SRS and the situation I’m in. I’m also ALREADY doing WK, so I don’t know if this is a practical use of my time.

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(Coming from someone who loves Anki)
I would strongly consider Anki over WK in your situation! Sounds like most Japanese you interact with is either spoken or on a screen, so you don’t really need kanji to be the first thing you focus on.
(Maybe for PC it is worth looking into a browser extension like Yomitan, Yomichan, idk what they’re all called. It will make looking up unknown vocab in emails a breeze)
With Anki, you firstly get much better coverage (with eg the Core 2K) of vocabulary that are relevant to a beginner (WK vocabulary can be more obscure and not really practical in day-to-day spoken language), and you have the option of chucking in vocab that you picked up from your job.
If you have all your vocab in one app, that makes it easier to build the habit of getting Anki to 0 reviews, I can imagine.

Obviously studying kanji is a big part of the language, but I’m not sure if your time for the next few months isn’t better spent elsewhere. If you reach a point where you feel that missing kanji knowledge is holding you back, I would pick up WK (or even study kanji through vocab on Anki!)

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I think the fact you have many use cases for Japanese in your day-to-day life is a really good thing here. I would also recommend Anki but mainly because it is highly customisable - you can add words you see and use all the time and combine that with the Irodori method to help bolster retention. Other than that I second @mitrac’s point of simple consistency helping.

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Right, I appreciate the thought here- I struggle with whether Kanji is worth it, because while I’m not actively using it EVERY day, a lot of company presentations by our vendors are untranslated and sometime the powerpoints are just a technical diagram with all labels in Japanese (and usually kanji only unless it’s a common term). It would be nice to look at a diagram and understand what a part is doing even if I don’t know how to say the word (which it does seem like is how kanji ends up in scientific and technical Japanese, correct me someone if I’m wrong).

At the same time, I’m essentially weighing myself between kanji OR vocab. WK in theory can take up a large part of my day if I let it, and I’m not sure it immediately gets me to what I should be learning right now.

I’ve downloaded the Core2K deck, as well as Seth Clydesdale’s (the author of Genki Study Tools) Genki deck, just to compare, though with Irodori on the horizon I might finally put down Genki and related material. It took a minute, but for once I actually had time to configure Anki to someone’s suggested settings, so I’m going to be experimenting with Anki this week.

Can you recommend decks or material for basic science Japanese? I’m not asking for complex physics, so much as elementary and middle school terms that I should know.

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Well you need both, so I’d vote for being a bit more proactive with vocab acquisition, but without letting your kanji get too far behind. You can do this by giving WK a lower time budget and only doing the # of lessons per day that fit in that so that you have time for other reading/grammar/vocab study. Or you choose a different kanji learning method and just learning the kanji most relevant to your vocab as you go. You’re far enough along, you probably already know how you’d best like to learn kanji, so maybe just don’t overthink this part and just check in with yourself every couple months how it’s going (start a study log here…)

search the forums as that got brought up recently, hopefully you can find that. I think the conclusion was - you need to get a good handle on basic Japanese first, and once you do, it will be possible to search for that stuff in context, in Japanese. Sorry, that’s not very helpful, is it! Here are some school lessons you can access if you make an account, you could just do all the science lectures and work your way up from elementary to middle school:

And you can look up topics here and often there are videos with transcripts

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I’ve used Irodori off and on and have found it helpful for speaking practice, but tbh I haven’t been consistent with using it myself :sweat_smile: I’m not planning on moving to Japan or living in a Japanese-speaking environment, so it hasn’t been high priority. But I really liked what I saw! I used to use the textbook version, but now that they have an online web app version too, so I use that instead.

Also, as a linguist who has formally studied second language teaching methodologies, I’m a big fan of how goal-oriented the JF Can-Dos are and how they target specific types of language competencies. So it’s something that I keep meaning to go back to even if lately I’ve been focusing more on just reading books instead.

I agree with Myria’s reply, I’d go with Anki over WK in your case:

And like they said, install Yomitan so you have an easier time reading emails and websites.

Personally I like making my own cards instead of using a premade deck, but I’ve heard great things about the Core 2K and others like that. You can set Anki up so you can have reading reviews, reviews where you type the answer like with WK, and listening reviews (I recommend Forvo for finding audio for your cards), that way you’re practicing all those skills.

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