Short Grammar Questions (Part 2)

so only for that screen, the translation cannot be really accurate? How would you translate it then?

I would look at the context of the whole scene and situation, and the lines before and after that, and given that I would try to come up with a translation for the line. In some other context some other translation of the same line might be better.

Japanese is a “high context language” – things that can be understood by the listener given the situation need not be explicitly stated. (Most obviously, subjects, objects and entire clauses can be dropped if they’re clear in context.) Furthermore, everybody on this forum is a fellow learner of the language – so the context helps us to be more certain about the meaning in some cases where a native speaker would be able to more confidently say “this has to mean X” or “this can mean X or Y depending”. If you want native speaker answers then you’re asking in the wrong place; if you want useful and more reliable answers from fellow learners then context is vital.

(In this case I’m about 95% confident in giving the same answer as @seanblue and about 5% wondering if there’s a situation where this is something like a cut-off ~ちゃいけない.)

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This is going to be some flavour of Classical Japanese style conjugation, so if you like you can just go for “I understand the basic meaning in context so I’ll skip past it without too much thought” the same way you might for a bit of dialogue in Tohoku dialect.

I think this is the Classical auxiliary む, which follows the mizenkei of a verb (same stem that you use for ~ない negatives). This む has a sound change to ん when it’s at the end of a sentence or before a noun (technically, when it’s in shushikei or rentaikei form). It has an annoyingly large set of possible meanings, but my reference says that when it’s at the end of a sentence in the first person it’s expressing intention: “I intend to VERB, I will VERB”.

(This auxiliary eventually ended up as the volitional form in modern Japanese – 食べよう、飲もう – which keeps at least some of the various senses classical む had, including the statement of intent one – see the “expressing your will” section of the Tofugu article on the volitional.)

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I did have the same thought (just with ちゃだめ), but the extra っ at the end makes that unlikely I think.

Either way, as you said, having the context would clear it up.

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This fits the context perfectly. Thank you very much for the detailed explanation. Little quirks like this are something I just have to pick up along the way.

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Hello! Just wondering if anyone can help me breakdown this sentence? Currently reading through some Junji Ito with a friend and I’m not super confident on what this means:

より多くの涙を流す泣女は、より多くの死者を成仏させている事になる

My understanding of it is something along the lines of

The situation becomes, the more the crying woman cries, the more that the dead are allowed to go to heaven.

Is より多く a set phrase? My understanding of より is that it means (more) than, but in this sentence if that’s the case, I don’t know what is being compared.

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Its not a set phrase, but it is pretty hard to explain. It just means “more” pretty much.

So you’re probably used to something like 私はあなたより強い. AよりB is the typical pattern, so I’ll skip explaining it, but if you want me to go more into it then let me know.

What you probably aren’t familiar with is where they leave out the A part. Like:

君の口からその言葉が聞けて、確信がより強くなったよ

In this case you can think of the baseline as being omitted. But more than the baseline is just “more”. In the sentence above, the implication is that there was some conviction at the point in time before they heard what the listener had to say. That would be the baseline, and now that they heard what they listener said, their conviction in whatever is more strong (nat. stronger).

So より多く would just mean more great in quantity, which we simply express with the word “more” in english. ことになる can be translated a couple different ways, but the first part would just be “The nakionnna who cries more, sends more of the dead to heaven (or just peaceful rest)”. You can see that even in the english I’m not saying “more than xyz” but am still conveying the message of “成仏させる increases proportionally to 涙”

A weird aside though, grammatically the meaning could actually be reversed if im not mistaken. It could be “the nakionnna who cries more has sent more people to heaven” and the cause and effect relationship would be reversed. I don’t think this is what they were going for (though I cant be 100% without context), but I thought it would at least mention it. It just has to do with the wording they used and the fact that ている can mean ongoing action or it can mean a completed action.

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Thank you so much, this has been a super helpful breakdown.

And yeh, my prior understanding of より was the AよりB pattern as you say, I wasn’t familiar with it where the A was omitted, but your explanation has helped to make that a lot clearer.

For further context, the line before this was そして、涙の量は死者の数に比例する, which I’m reading as “the amount of tears is proportionate to the number of the dead”

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Yep, you got it. Tears are proportional to quantity of deceased. Nakionna who cry more (than others) send more of those souls to rest peacefully (than other nakionna).

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Ah yes got you! Right it’s all just clicked! Thanks again :slight_smile:

Hello!

I had a bit of an epiphany right before deciding to write this, but I still want to check! I was feeling pretty comfortable with the conditional ば and then this one kept throwing me for a loop. I think I just get confused when this character speaks vs the narration… I guess? lol

はて、おかしなことがあればあるものだ。

I kept getting lost because it didn’t seem like there was a “then” part of the sentence, but I just realized that’s what あるものだ is? Because then the sentence is basically saying “Well, if there are strange things, then that’s what they are.”

Maybe that’s fine, in the context of the little story I’m confused because the character is very suspicious and goes to spy after this, whereas the sentence gives an “oh well” vibe lol

EDIT (before I’ve even hit reply, because I am determined to get this silly little sentence :smiling_face_with_tear:)

Is this a もの vs こと thing? Is he saying something more like “Well, if strange/suspicious things are happening, then something is there” aka if something weird is happening, there is something (tangible) behind it?

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So just to be clear its not really a very clear sentence. It’s meant to be sorta vague. So this ものだ can be read about here
https://jlptsensei.com/learn-japanese-grammar/ものだ-ものじゃない-mono-da-mono-janai-meaning/
The first couple example sentences are the same vibe. It’s hard to explain in english, but its like the idea of “thats just how xyz is”. The site translates this as “normally” or “common fact”.

So your sentence is literally saying strange things exist if they exist. It’s not entirely clear what they were getting at outside of context, and it might not be clear even with context since its likely they are just trying to sound deep and mysterious. I would take it to mean that there is a possibility that strange things would happen, and if they do it just is what it is.

I wouldn’t think too much about it honestly.

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That’s probably the one part of that sentence I didn’t google :sweat_smile:

I did have a feeling it was this character’s dialogue that was throwing me off…Thank you!

I’m thinking given the context it might actually make sense. Essentially, his rice and miso are going missing and his wife supposedly doesn’t eat (it’s a yokai tale lol), so in hindsight, he could be saying “well it is what it is” for the benefit of his wife, and then he’s sneaking around to see what she’s doing without her realizing he’s on to her.

I’ve had instances in the past of “don’t sweat on that” and then been completely backwards on the translation, so when something sticks out I get a bit obsessive :laughing:

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Its fine to be obsessive. I wasn’t trying to suggest you not worry about stuff you don’t know period. Just in this particular case the japanese is meant to be vague.

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This weblio page has some example sentences from various JE dictionaries with this pattern that might help with the overall sense (as well as some irrelevant results):

ずいぶんもの好きもあればあるものだ. There is no accounting for tastes

不思議な事もあればあるものだ. That’s a mystery / I really can’t account for it

変なことがあればあるものだ. Strange things will happen

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image

What is meant here by どうやってもいける ? I feel like the literal translation is, “By some means, it can go.” Is the speaker expressing that they agree that it’s somewhat unbelievable?

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どうやっても isn’t “by some means”, it’s more “no matter how”. In a more general sense どう[verb]ても is something like “no matter how you [verb]”, so どうやっても is something along the lines of “no matter what you do”.

Also いける isn’t “it can go”, it’s a general term for something being okay/acceptable that can also mean something looks/tastes good.

So Senshi’s saying slime is gonna be good no matter what you do, basically.

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I spy someone who might want to join the ダンジョン飯 book club. :slightly_smiling_face:

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Leveraging the existing content provided by the speaker on the right one could translate it as “however you prepare it, it’s fine (to eat)”. A よ at the end would also work for emphasis.

You can think of いける in this context as “it goes” so more of a metaphorical meaning, than actually “going” anywhere.

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