Redundant WK する vocabs

[plantron]

I have collected all the する verbs in WK that already exist in their form without the -する suffix (for example, 決定 already exists on level 9 but then you get 決定する on level 11).

In total, I found 79 such する-verbs. Compared to the total number of vocabs (6352) it’s a small number. However, it can get quite tedious learning these vocabs, especially on levels where they tend to accumulate. For example, between levels 21 and 41 (inclusive) there is at least one such vocab in every level, totalling 57 items.

I’m not advocating for the removal of all these items. Especially on lower levels it can be useful to learn them. There are also exceptions such as 混乱する which means “to be confused” and not “to confuse [someone]”. But do we really need 79? Do we really need to learn that 輸入する is “to import” when we already know that 輸入 is “import”?

How about removing some of these and replacing them with other words that are more useful such as 曖昧 or 語彙, or even nanori readings of most common Japanese person names such as 鈴木 or 井上?

Level	する verb
11	決定する
11	集中する
11	保持する
12	心配する
12	要求する
13	注文する
13	共有する
14	期待する
14	消化する
14	勉強する
14	回転する
14	旅行する
15	暗記する
15	練習する
15	整理する
16	希望する
16	約束する
16	妥協する
16	卒業する
21	説得する
21	参加する
22	非難する
22	在留する
22	存在する
23	選挙する
23	判断する
23	確認する
23	検査する
23	批判する
23	理解する
24	提案する
24	寝坊する
24	応援する
24	営業する
24	支援する
25	吸収する
25	準備する
26	差別する
26	輸出する
27	逮捕する
27	隠居する
28	比較する
28	輸入する
28	面接する
28	回復する
29	誘惑する
30	診断する
30	攻撃する
30	登録する
31	催促する
31	緊張する
31	主催する
32	購読する
32	延長する
32	結婚する
32	出版する
33	編集する
33	掃除する
33	散歩する
34	賛成する
35	尊敬する
35	宣言する
35	否定する
36	指摘する
36	降参する
36	損害する
37	紹介する
38	廃止する
38	維持する
39	掲載する
39	応募する
39	削除する
40	選択する
40	遠慮する
40	避難する
41	充電する
44	克服する
45	襲撃する
49	挿入する

[jprspereira]

I’m not advocating for the removal of all these items. Especially on lower levels it can be useful to learn them. There are also exceptions such as 混乱する which means “to be confused” and not “to confuse [someone]”. But do we really need 77? Do we really need to learn that 輸入する is “to import” when we already know that 輸入 is “import”?

I agree with this I think it would make WK’s experience better overall.

[Redglare]

鈴木

OMG I JUST LEARNED THAT SUZU KANJI HOW CUTE ISN’T THAT NAME “TINY BELL TREE” AWW x3

[murasakiblue]

Redundant vocabs have me to spend a lot of time dissecting examples and trying to find a teeny tiny difference… sometimes in vain. And even if they say: the more synonyms of a word you know, the more fluent… I agree this can achieve the opposite result and make us confused, afraid to use the wrong vocab in a given context.

[Arzar33]

Totally agree and thanks for making the list !
I remember being quite annoyed by those する verbs when doing my run. Looking at the stats I understand now why. It’s not that there is hundred and hundred of them, but there is still enough to get one or two for each level, so it was a constant little reminder that we could have more interesting vocab instead of repeating the obvious one.

On a much smaller scale the i-Adj+さ felt also a bit pointless.

[Leebo]

or even nanori readings of most common Japanese person names such as 鈴木 or 井上?

Those are just regular kunyomi readings for those kanji (well, 井上 is a little weird if you’ve never seen hidden の or が before) but we’ve been waiting for names for a while.

[plantron]

On a much smaller scale the i-Adj+さ felt also a bit pointless.

Haha yeah but there are only 3 of them: 大きさ、長さ、深さ.

[anon92537032]

Yeah, a lot of the verbs feel redundant and like busywork, to be honest. But I think WaniKani also wants to keep a balance of nouns, adjectives and verbs so your vocab is functional, but I feel that teaching them separately is a little annoying.
Using it as a verb in an example sentence would be enough for me to recognize that it’s a verb-able word.

There are some cases where the noun version and the verb version of the same word have different meanings. In that case, it would be appropriate to have them as separate items so it sticks out.

[Chrysus]

I would rather have them than not have them. I wouldn’t feel comfortable just assuming every two-kanji word that lacks a specific verb item on WK is a suru verb. I also don’t mind the reinforcement of the kanji, as that’s ultimately what WK and the vocab is for, not for learning all the Japanese vocab you could ever need.

[Belthazar]

How about removing some of these and replacing them with other words that are more useful such as 曖昧 or 語彙

Or major placenames like 札幌 or 那覇 (though, you’d also need to teach 幌 - the other three kanji are already in WaniKani).

or even nanori readings of most common Japanese person names such as 鈴木 or 井上?

Which reading in either of those names is nanori?

[tzukishiro]

I would rather have them than not have them. I wouldn’t feel comfortable just assuming every two-kanji word that lacks a specific verb item on WK is a suru verb. I also don’t mind the reinforcement of the kanji, as that’s ultimately what WK and the vocab is for, not for learning all the Japanese vocab you could ever need.

Agreed, this is much better than having to assume stuff.
Wanikani isn’t a game, it’s a study tool, and studying can be redundant, tedious, it’s work, etc.

[Leebo]

Which reading in either of those names is nanori?

Yeah, I mentioned that above

[Noursaidana]

I think people are missing the point. It’s free vocab’ to increase the accuracy percentages so that you feel that you are getting better.

[Sinom]

You don’t have to assume stuff when it literally on the page and when it comes up in a lesson says if it is a suru verb or not.

Even in the reviews if you expand after answering it tells you if it is a suru verb or not.

I do agree with Noursaidana’s point though. It’s free vocab so i never actually got annoyed with it I was till now just always kinda happy that my number of lessons went down without me having to put time into learning something new

[plantron]

I do agree with Noursaidana’s point though. It’s free vocab so i never actually got annoyed with it I was till now just always kinda happy that my number of lessons went down without me having to put time into learning something new

Until you do KaniWani or KameSame and have to do all 79 * 2 items again…

[Ayokana]

I completely agree, especially because when you learn the initial noun, WK tells you that it can also be used as a する verb in the “part of speech” section, so it feels really unnecessary. The only time it’s really useful is when the verb is a little different from the noun’s meaning.

[Leebo]

One thing that I would argue in favor of separate items is that it would give a chance to make the transitivity clear. I’m not sure they really focus on that, but you can’t tell what the transitivity of a する verb will be just from looking at the noun.

For instance, 挑戦 (ちょうせん, challenge), which actually does not have its own dedicated する verb item, is intransitive in verb form. You say に挑戦する, not を挑戦する.

Of course, alternatively, you could just always make sure that the example sentence for the plain noun item makes the transitivity of the する verb form clear, but then that restricts what you can do with those sentences a bit.

[Voleuse]

I’m late te this thread, but I agree that these vocabs are redundant. It’s not like you would be unable to read a vocab it there was suru after it, it’s fairly intuitive.

I have never even thought about transitivity when it comes to suru verbs and I don’t think WK is even supposed to teach you any verb grammar. They are also not consistent with having a suru-vocab every time either. They could just stick the example sentence from the suru-vocab into the main word vocab and in my opinion that would be the same but more efficient.

Yes it’s “free” vocab but it would be even more free if, you know, it wasn’t there at all.

[Leebo]

I have never even thought about transitivity when it comes to suru verbs and I don’t think WK is even supposed to teach you any verb grammar.

We get topics about how to tell verbs apart by transitivity all the time, precisely because WK does bake transitivity into the meanings. But when there isn’t a pair, it’s not as noticeable, because the English verb could be opposite in its transitivity.

Thinking about transitivity with your する verbs might be a good idea, BTW >_>

At least as good of an idea as thinking about transitivity with any other verb.

[Saida]

I kind of agree, but they already make a note with the jukugo whether it is a する verb or not.