Reading ブラックジャックによろしく manga exercises (p14-and up)

Yes, it’s something like that. ‘At the risk of repeating myself…’. I think it’s because he has said before that procedures that just extend someone’s life (or rather, to keep them alive when their body wouldn’t otherwise be able to keep going) are a waste of resources (in his opinion). I agree with you though. ‘Wasting fees’ sounds strange in English. I think, however, since they mention 国民, that it might be a reference to the stuff that citizens have already paid as part of a national programme, perhaps through taxes, so there’s already a pool of money dedicated to ‘medical fees’. You’ll have to check how Japan’s healthcare system works (which is something I don’t know much about right now).

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As @Jonapedia mentioned, ~なんて = “things like ~”. That doesn’t work well in English though so I like to translate it as “to think that ~”: “to think that you’d go as far as to perform the peritoneal dialysis I told you not to do”. It does sound quite condescending to my ears, like “I can’t believe you did that”.

Bingo. くどいようだが = くどいようですが = “It may seem like I’m repeating myself, but…” in a “may I remind you that…” sort of way.

“Fees” might not be the right word, 国民医療費 is the national medical care expenditure; Shiratori is saying that life-prolonging treatments are a waste of budget/tax money. (無駄遣い: 無駄 ‘useless’ + 遣い, fancy kanji for 使い)

~ようとする = “to attempt to ~”. For ichidan verbs, replace る with よう; for godan verbs, replace the last う-sound with おう (e.g. 救う→救おう, 治す→治そう).
To express “seem to”, take the masu-stem and add そう, which turns it into a na-adjective: 助けそうな医師 -> “a doctor who seems to help/save [the patient]”.

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@ayamedori @Jonapedia
So helpful! Thank you!

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11 claiming:

Transcription

私はこういう患者(かんじゃ)『を』何百(なんびゃく)『も』()てきた


✩New Vocabulary✩
こういう:such, this sort of…;
何百(なんびゃく) : hundreds;


:speech_balloon:I’ve also seen hundreds of patients like this one
The only thing I’m not 100% is that も meaning “even” there. Otherwise I’m 100% final answer Shannon would be proud of.

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As it follows a quantity (何百も) maybe it is this 3rd definition (from jisho.org) :

even; as much as; as many as; as far as; as long as; no less than; no fewer than (​used for emphasis or to express absence of doubt regarding a quantity, etc.)

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12.

Transcription:
:eye:‍:left_speech_bubble:死『に』ゆく(もの)『は』静か『に』みとるべき〔だ〕
✩New Vocabulary✩
死『に』ゆく(もの):guessing: a person who is about to die? Lit. death (destination) moving person.
静かに:quiet+adverbial に=quietly
みとる:v. to perceive, to understand
べき:should, must, ought to…
:speech_balloon:You should perceive calmly a person who is about to die…
Final but not sure answer.

Your interpretations are spot on, except for one: みとる, in my dictionary, is 看取る, and means 'to be at someone’s bedside and care for him/her". Your understanding for 死にゆく者 is also correct. ゆく is another form of 行く(いく). Thus, the translation should instead by ‘You should quietly care for a person who is dying/about to die.’ Well done.

Side note: please, I beg of you all, know your definitions if you’re going to use technical terms.

Off-topic rant with a link to the relevant post and thread. (I'm sorry, I need to vent. But really, please, don't do such things...)

The reason I’m still online is because I spent 2h7min writing a 3334-word post on what a ‘part of speech’ is because somebody just kept insisting that ‘suffix’ ought to be a ‘part of speech’ = a ‘word class’ (according to him) and refused (or so it seems) to check the actual definition of the word.

Here’s the post (article/mini-treatise, really) about what ‘part of speech’ means if any of you are interested. In it, I translate the Japanese definition of 品詞=‘part of speech’ in order to explain why he was wrong since he kept saying, in essence, ‘Japanese is different from English, so your English definitions aren’t valid’. I’m exhausted right now, and I hope I don’t wake up tomorrow morning to see another reply for him containing yet another contradiction that clearly means he didn’t read my reply or the links I included.

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Hmm… sorry you feel that way. As I said, people seldom change their mind about their convictions so I fear the time you’re investing won’t have much of an impact. Even if you manage to make a point, there’s always a way to move the goals, cite different sources say you interpret words differently, etc… At the end of the day, why not simply let go?

Thanks for the feedback! It was not an easy sentence.

(considering he’s already replying, he likely didn’t read your message which further demonstrates that people would rather ignore data in order to safeguard their convictions).

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Yes, I intended that post as a last hurrah. A post meant to say, ‘Logically speaking, you can’t argue with this, because if you do, then according to you, even Japanese people are wrong about their own language.’ I wanted to give him the benefit of doubt, because maybe he genuinely didn’t understand the earlier posts or the flaws in his logic.

Anyway, even if he replies, if I see it’s something unreasonable, I will just leave/mute the thread. It’s definitely much easier to leave straightaway instead of writing 3000+ words, but I guess one challenge that motivated me was to translate the Japanese dictionary entry. (There were a lot of grammatical terms inside that I didn’t know.) The other challenge that motivated me was ‘Can I write 3000 words and still stay logically coherent when I’m tired?’

Whatever it is, I’m really thankful for this little circle on the forums. I’ll go to sleep now. Thanks. :slight_smile:

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13 Hast Been Claimed…

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C’est alors que Saitou, furieux, se retourna vers le docteur Shirotori (dit l’oiseau blanc) et répliqua:
それじゃあだまって死ぬ『の』『を』()てろって()うんですか…?

:heavy_check_mark:Nouveau vocabulaire:
それじゃあ:Well then, in that situation, if that’s the case;
だまって:~て form of the verb だまる, to use ayamadori’s word, to link stuff :slight_smile: In other words, Saitou says:

:speech_balloon:In that case I will keep silent and

()ぬ:v. to die, nominalised by の I assume;
を direct object of ()て: v. to look, also in ~て…
:speech_balloon: …and look at death…

I think normally I would use a gerund to nominalise a verb but here I felt like ‘‘death’’ would be better so I went with that. What’s the worse that can happen? A mistake? That wouldn’t be bad, it’d just point in the right direction.

:grey_question:Which brings the question… what’s ろって? I assumed it was yet another ~て form but nothing came up when I looked it up. Normally it would tell me it’s an inflection of a verb or another but nothing this time around.

Since it’s followed by ()う it could be something like a quotation と but I’m just speculating here, doing some detective work if you will. I mean, って does come up as you said, he said but that doesn’t tell me what the ろ does here.

The rest is business as usual, んだ good old casual のだ。

Yours,

E.Z.

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Maybe the imperative of いる (for 5-dan verbs the imperative is the stem with the “e” vowel; but for 1-dan ones it is the stem + ろ : 飲め = drink! 食べろ = eat!)
So: 見てろ = 見ていろ, an imperative for the action of seeing during a continuous span of time.

So, Saitou says to Shiratori something like “So, in that case, you order me keep silent and to keep watching at death”.

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MDR :laughing:

You’ve got it! ‘So, you’re telling me to stay silent and keep watching [as] death [occurs]…?’
I used ‘you’re telling’ and ‘[as] death [occurs]’ only because they’re more natural in English. Of course, in the Japanese, it’s just ‘you say’ and ‘death’. But yes, good job for thinking of the imperative of いる.

Off-topic update

The discussion from yesterday went well. There are reasonable people on forums after all! I hope it all gets wrapped up amicably.

That was thanks to クレヨンしんちゃん reading exercises that Shannon8 did some time ago. There were lots of imperative forms and so I get practice recognizing them.

(That’s also the nice thing of those reading exercises with real Japanese texts; we are exposed to forms that are usually not shown on the average teaching material)

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14 :writing_hand:

その通り〔だ〕
Since 通り【とおり】means “avenue”, I think Saitou is saying:
:speech_balloon: “It’ll be that way”
Or said differently: “Have it your way then”.


(I’ll also add this at the beginning of the thread).

:pray:Please remember to vote. It takes less than 5 seconds and insures the activity is democratically run.


15.

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難しい事『は』分かんね

:speech_balloon: “It’s a difficult thing, you understand…”

お任せします

:thought_balloon:お任せ :heavy_plus_sign: する is a noun/verb which means “leave a decision to someone else”.

:speech_balloon: “We leave the decision up to you [doctors]”


16.

白鳥先生:

《延命処置『は』中止させていただきます》

Explanations

延命処置: is a compound noun (複合名詞), a combination of 延命+処置:
Life prolonging measures.
『は』: topic
中止させて: v. suspension in the causative.
Causative:

Verbs conjugated into the causative form are used to indicate an action that someone makes happen. Like Captain Picard so succinctly puts it, the causative verb means to “make it so”.
-Tae Kim

So I guess here it means:
:speech_balloon: “make it so that the life prolonging treatment are stopped”.
いただきます gives a connotation of “please accept”.

I think the person who says this is actually Shiratori. He’s replying to Saitou’s question.

This is probably the closer interpretation. その通り means ‘that is so’/‘that is the case’, which is quite close to the literal translation (‘it is that way’). その is used, as you might have guessed, because he’s referring to Saitou’s statement (‘your’ statement, from Shiratori’s perspective). A less literal translation would be ‘it is as you have said’, but that adds elements that weren’t in the original sentence. Another way for Shiratori to reply would have been 言った通りだ, which is closer to ‘it is as you have said’, but literally is ‘it is the way you said.’

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17.

斎藤: 《おじいさん…あなた『は』本当『に』意識『が』ないんですか…?》

本当に: really, truly;
When a -na adjective is followed by に, is に always an adverbial?;
意識 is the subject as indicated by が.
なんですか: it is assuredly that;

Edit: fixed typo.

To me, it looks more like “I don’t understand difficult things” (i.e. This is too complicated for me to make a decision on my own) which is why he is leaving the decisions to the doctor (お任せします。)

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Causative + いただきます = “I will [verb]” in humble speech. The causitive form is “let [verb] happen”; いただく means “to receive” and is commonly used with requests and permission → 中止させていただきます literally means “I will receive being let (allowed) to stop the treatment”, so a fancy way to say “I’ll stop […]” basically.

It actually says ないんですか :slight_smile:

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