Ranting about 済

Jisho.org knows one N1 level word where it’s onyomi is actually used in its indicated form さい=救済

Other onyomi use for this kanji is always ざい in form of 経済。

So why won’t official readings include ざい, so that WK could also consider it as valid reading…

Dumb comment edited

さい is just the reading of 済. I’m not actually sure if Japanese people update the onyomi readings in the first place nowadays (@leebo ?). And even if they did I would be very surprised if they added ざい lol. If you were joking, then ignore this

I think you might have misread the thread. He said official reading



That’s a lot of さい.


I think they mean jisho and the like.


I suppose its possible that a learner thinks Jisho as being official, now that you mention it lol.

In that case, I mean yeah even jisho probably wouldn’t add it. The only resources you will find with the ざい reading will have it marked as a 慣用音, and it seems like it would be pretty weird to me to group that in with the 漢音. But either way, its not like jisho is holding wk back from adding it (not that I think they should)

1 Like

Whoops, checked with words containing 斉… this doesn’t include starting / ending with…

1 Like

If Jisho’s be be believed, there are at least three common words ending in 済 where the reading is さい.

Because the ざい reading is due to rendaku? Notice that

Rendaku readings are sometimes added to databases, sometimes not. They don’t have to, since that’s a voicing change of another reading and not a separate kanji reading technically.

1 Like

Ah ok, my bad.


Do you have any examples?

1 Like

If you think that the ざい reading is the only one worth learning at this point because of 経済 then learn it and use scripts to accept the answer in WK. You don’t need official sanction from John Apan (the inventor of Japanese) to decide how you want to learn the language…

Not off the top of my head, but can dig a bit later today when I sit down to my kanji analysis again.

The comment was more anecdotal / from memory, as I remember running into a similar situation for a different kanji.

It’s not rendaku in something like 経済. I think what Vanilla mentioned about 慣用音 is the answer. It’s a corruption and therefore won’t get listed as onyomi, since those should have a basis in Chinese pronunciation.

That’s what seems reasonable to me.


How do you establish that it’s not a rendaku?

I was considering from the fact that ざい is 慣用音. But I guess the fact that ざい is a corruption doesn’t necessarily eliminate the possibility of rendaku on its own.

Most 慣用音 I’m familiar with came from misreadings, attributing lookalike kanji’s readings to other kanji, etc. So that was what was in my head.


I’m pretty sure being 慣用音 implies that the reading itself doesn’t match any Chinese ones that it could have come from. Rendaku doesn’t count as its own “reading”, so by definition if it was Rendaku it wouldn’t be 慣用音 if I’m not mistaken.

1 Like

One more thing, maybe WK should have one vocab with reading さい… Now I have to keep this in mind for months that regardless of all words I know, correct reading of the kanji is actually different.

1 Like

That part can be arranged.

@Mods any chance you could pass it to the content team to have a look whether it’s possible to add a vocab item with the reading of さい for 済?


Sure! I’ll check and ket you know.

Update: So we have 救済 and 返済 in the pipeline, but I’m afraid I can’t offer a timeline on these just yet.