Quick question about a context sentence

Hi, I read this context sentence while doing my lessons:

このけんに関しては、妥協のよ地はありません。

There is no room for compromise on this matter.

and I was wondering how the wa particle is able to mark 関して. How does this work? Can particles mark te form?

https://jisho.org/word/に関して

etc. as Leebo says.

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It’s probably best to think of に関して as its own thing, but yes, you can put は after a て form. But again, that wouldn’t really be related to this particular usage.

Ah, I see now. I probably should have just put it in jisho before this then. But regarding this, in what situations would putting wa after a te form make sense? and why would you do that?

ては can be used like ~してはだめ “You can’t do [something]”

Someone might have a resource they can link.

I see, thank you for the quick reply. I found this resource regarding te wa:

http://maggiesensei.com/2017/11/01/how-to-use-ては-では-tewa-dewa/

and it seems to explain it well

I think that に関して and に関しては can be used interchangeably (however the first is standard), and the ては inside of the latter does not have any connection to the ては では point the link is describing.

As the link says it is describing a casual spoken Japanese grammar point.

I think the example sentence is definitely meant to represent spoken Japanese, however it is obviously not casual and does not express repetition or any of the other situations the link describes.

I guess if it helps, I hear both at work in the exact same situations (I work at a Japanese company, I’m the only foreigner).

Thank you for the reply. I was thinking more so about te wa in general, since I don’t really see it often in the sites I use to read Japanese (NHK News Easy and some others). For the te wa in the context sentence, would there be any more differences between the one in the link and the one in the context sentence (besides the differences you mentioned above)?

My opinion:

For the context sentence, If you understand に関して, then you understand に関しては and there is no additional grammatical meaning to be understood.

My understanding is that 関しては is just a weird spoken exception. So I think it is probably best if you don’t consider 関しては to have any connection to using ては grammatically. I think this may be what Leebo meant when he said it is probably best to think of it as its own thing.

I see, then I will just treat it as an exception.

If you don’t mind, I have one last question regarding something off-topic;
I was reading a Japanese article and I read this:

大学病院の院長などでつくる団体によると、新しいコロナウイルスが原因で病気になった人を治療するため、大学病院ではほかの病気の手術を少なくしています。

How do the de particles at 大学病院の院長などでつくる団体 and 新しいコロナウイルスが原因で make sense? I see a lot of patterns like “Xの問題で” which I understand as “within the problem of X”, but I couldn’t make much sense out of the two usages of de in the two parts I mentioned above. As I understand, “大学病院の院長などでつくる団体” means something along the lines of “the university hospital’s directors that made the organization”, but im not sure why de would be used. The other part, “新しいコロナウイルスが原因で” also had me very confused. Why is 原因 marked by で and 新しいコロナウイルス marked by が?

Sorry for the off-topic and loaded question; this has been on my mind since I read it and I figured it would be easier asking it now than making a separate topic.

The article: https://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/easy/k10012435321000/k10012435321000.html

It’s “an organisation which is made up of university hospital directors and such” - note that 団体 is being modified by everything that came before it, so in English, that all becomes a subordinate clause; the 団体 is the focus of this clause.

But the で here is playing the role of “of” in the phrase “made up of”. Nでつくる = made from N.

This one I admit I’m less confident of. But I can see Leebo typing, so I’ll leave it to him. :grinning:

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I’ll just address the second one then.

で marks 原因 as the cause of how the person gets sick. So it’s the “by means of” meaning, I guess.

病気になった人 - person who got sick
原因で病気になった人 - person who got sick by some cause
新しいコロナウイルスが原因で病気になった人 - person who got sick from novel coronavirus

が marks 新しいコロナウイルス because it’s making a clause with 原因.

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That makes more sense. I should have known that lol. Thank you for the explanation.

Aaah, that clears it up a lot. I had been thinking that 新しいコロナウイルスが was curing the patients at 治療するため, but that makes no sense at all. I understand the sentence now. Thank you both for the explanation.

The more I think about it, though, it could also just be the て form of だ. Just used to connect two clauses.

For instance, 私は学生で、アメリカ人です. “I’m a student and I’m American.”

Such a で can just connect the part before it to the part after even when the second part is part of a relative clause.

But I’m not 100% sure which it is.

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Yeah, after you mention it I can see it as well, but I think both make enough sense to where it’s understandable enough.

Yeah, I thought it could potentially be either as well, which is why I left it you. :stuck_out_tongue:

Generally が will connect a subject to the first verb (or i-adjective) in the sentence, I think. は can indicate a topic across the whole sentence, as such you can connect that to the main/final verb in the sentence. So whether で in 原因で is a te form or not, it would never have connected to 治療する, because なった is also there. But since 新しいコロナウイルスが…病気になった doesn’t make sense, I would conclude that で is the te-form in this case. Edit: a causal te-form (I don’t know how you say this in English).

Added:
So the sentence would be explained thusly:
In order to treat people who got sick andwith new coronavirus (w)as the cause, we are reducing operations for other ailments.

Yes, I agree. Thinking that 新しいコロナウイルスが was part of 治療するため was silly, considering it was part of the relative clause modifying 人, so naturally 新しいコロナウイルスが would be connected to なった. I read some examples online with が原因で, and from what I’ve seen it seems to be the te form of da/ta. In this example especially:

セキュリティシステムの欠陥が原因で,この車の値段は下がった.

The price of this car decreased due to a defect in its security system.

I think it being the te form of da would make the most sense. There were more examples, like 火災で,煙が原因で死ぬ, which seem to use the で following 原因 as a connector rather than a particle.

Thank you for the added insight.

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I don’t know if 〜ては is more common in spoken Japanese than in written Japanese, but as far as I know, it’s not an ‘exception’. It’s true that 関しては isn’t part of an idiomatic structure like 〜てはならない・いけない・ダメ, but it’s not unrelated. In both cases, the は after the て-form indicates that the action indicated by the て-form is a point of focus of the sentence. It adds emphasis and indicates the context.

In the sentence 「このけんに関しては、妥協のよ地はありません。」, there’s the idea that on this matter in particular, there’s no room for compromise. In fact, it might be more accurate to translate the sentence by putting ‘on this matter’ at the beginning of the sentence, since that gives it a little more emphasis. This is similar to one of the uses of the は particle, which we might call the ‘contrastive’ use. If we were to put this sentence in context, we might have a situation like 「ほかのけん どうでもいいです。しかし、このけんに関して 、妥協のよ地はありません。」(‘For the other matters, anything’s fine. However, regarding this matter, there is no room for compromise.’) Notice how は is used twice in order to compare two different topics. That’s the reason I said it’s a ‘point of focus’. As for the second は (妥協のよ地はありません), it’s there mainly because in Japanese, it’s more common to use は than が in a negative sentence involving ない・ありません, possibly because the absence is seen as the more important thing. (は tends to emphasise what comes after it.)

As for が原因で,

I think this is the correct interpretation. The interpretation of で as a ‘means/method’ marker also makes sense semantically, and that shows how closely related the two are. However, it doesn’t make much sense grammatically, because what comes before で when it’s used as a ‘means’ particle has to be a noun or noun phrase. If it had been intended as a ‘means’ particle, the sentence would have been 新しいコロナウイルス という 原因で or something similar, with 原因 as the main noun. Using が, on the other hand, turns 原因 into a modifier/attribute/property of コロナウイルス.

Final point about で, this time for the other use of で in the article that you pointed out above:

Here, で is used to indicate the ‘means’. The organisation is ‘made up of’ university hospital directors, as @Belthazar said. You could also say that it was made ‘with’ university hospital directors, which is closer to the original meaning, though that sounds very improper to an English speaker since it makes it seem like the directors are being treated as an inanimate material. However, here’s what I wanted to point out: で is used because the organisation is clearly made up of university hospital directors. They are the building blocks/individual units that constitute this organisation. Another particle commonly used with つくる is から (as in 〜からつくる), but it’s not used here. Why? It’s because から indicates that the constituents have undergone a certain transformation, and that it’s not immediately obvious that those were the constituents used. For instance, パンは小麦からつくる – ‘bread is made from wheat’. Here, the directors haven’t undergone any sort of transformation that would make their role as constituent members unclear, so から would be inappropriate, and で is used instead.

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