Question about Kanji unlocking using WK Ultimate Reorder 2 Script


#1

I made it to level 7 but find that learning and reviewing the vocab slows me down. Is it possible to just use the WK Ultimate Reorder 2 script to Review and learn Lessons with the current level you need to level up?

I tried this in Level 7 but WK won’t let me learn more than the 21 out of 33 kanji in level 7. I also learned all 17 of the radicals in level 7.

When I go to lessons, only vocab shows in WK Ultimate Reorder 2 in the bottom.

Do I need to learn and unlock all the vocal before I can learn new kanji or is there a cap to the number of Kanji in the current level you can do lessons for in a day?

Thanks for your prompt reply!


#2

You need to guru the radicals to get the rest of the kanji.

And yes, you can level without doing any vocab but it’s not suggested, and most of the people here who try it end up regretting it. The point of the vocab is to reinforce kanji in actual use, clarify meanings, give you additional readings. Abstract kanji mean nothing, and won’t help you to read, and WK will only teach you one reading for it.

You might as well be doing Heisig.


#3

THANK YOU SO MUCH. What you said actually makes a LOT of sense. I really appreciate it.

Yes, it is just that it took me 26-29 days to level up between level 1 to level 6. Then I got stuck on level 6 for more than 176 days… until I started to use scripts because the reviews were random.

It was much easier to review the way I learned it by level with scripts.

Now I am level 7 and am still suck and bogged by vocab. Yes it does help but I wanted to learn Kanji at a faster pace. I do find I can sort of make out what a word is saying in a grocery store if I know the Kanji meaning.

Regarding the VOCAB, I DO plan to go back and LEARN it all but just find that it really bogs down my progress. There is like over 100 vocab per level vs 30-40 kanji per level. Its just too much distraction since I am really more focused on Kanji at this point.

Since I started this program nearly 3 years ago and am at level 7 due to not being very consistent and not really setting aside time for reviews and lessons.

I thought knowing the Kanji would help me get around Japan as a visitor. I know I have a very long way to go, but I thought doing it this way would help me go through Wanikani levels and be exposed to as much Kanji as possible sooner than later.

Plus, I noticed the example sentences in the Vocab use Kanji from further levels, so it doesn’t really help much if I feel I am lacking in Kanji to really make better use of the example sentences in the vocab if they have Kanji from higher levels in them. ^^;


#4

Honestly, it just sounds like you aren’t willing/able to put in the work to use the reorder script responsibly. If you recognize the importance of the vocab to reinforce kanji, and also want to level up quickly, you just need to keep up with reviews and lessons at a consistent pace. I do 20 lessons a day and try my best to do reviews asap (but I don’t wake up in the middle of the night for it/during work/etc), and level up every 8 days, only ever being maybe half a level of vocab behind.

Sure, you can just learn the kanji and understand bits and pieces of things, but the real world isn’t kanji, the real world is actual words.

As for the example sentences, yea they are pretty ridiculous for beginners. They also often use very casual/rude grammar and slang. I would use clozemaster or duendecat or jisho for example sentences.

EDIT: Also, tbh, once you get past maybe level 15, the kanji get a lot harder. But vocab are mostly easy since you will already know their kanji. So it’s nice to have easier vocab break up the 30 or so difficult kanji you get slammed with.


#5

Seriously, you are missing out on WaniKani’s benefits learning like this. Vocabulary is essential! How are you going to speak a sentence with Kanji? Your travel will be so much easier with spoken vocabulary. I have been to Japan three times and Kanji only helped me find exits and train stations. You know what was more helpful? Actually talking to Japanese people and interacting with them. They are so helpful and knowing a few more vocab helps to interact with them. Checking in a hotel or asking someone to take your picture or asking for directions.

Please rethink your strategy thoroughly. If you put in the extra effort, you can still level up in 7 days while learning all the vocabulary along with all the Kanji. Get more immersed in the language! Read articles in Japanese or watch anime(with subs) but pay attention to the spoken language.

My advice is from experience. I hope you will reconsider.


#6

My Plan:
I DO want to put in the work and still DO plan to go back and DO the vocab. Its just I want to learn more Kanji at this point and at least get to level 20 and if I get stuck or have a hard time with Kanji, then I’ll sit back and do reviews or learn vocab.

I remember sitting in my Japanese 101 class in college and at least half of my classmates were Chinese. They said they already know the Chinese Kanji meaning and reading. They were able to catch on at a much faster rate and learn Japanese.

I would like my experience of self-learning Japanese to be similar to my Chinese classmates. There are lots of avenues I can branch off of, like including looking at some Japanese learning textbooks and not have to worry about the Kanji anymore.

I believe the Kanji is the most difficult part of the language when your just getting started and wanted to get it out of the way as soon as possible. I can of course pick up vocab along the way and still continue learning much further down or later.

I just did the math and its too hard, especially since I’m having a hard time with getting through all the critical items I get wrong. I am honest in reviews and if I get it wrong, I honestly rather get it wrong and review it later until I get it right. It lead to creating a LONG list (at least 65 items) of critical items and 97% of which are vocab.

So you see my frustration. :confused:


#7

It’s better to learn a vocab word for kanji that were recently guru’d than to learn a vocab word 4 months after learning the kanji in it. That’s why they are included together.

Your Chinese classmates didn’t learn Kanji with WaniKani and you are not them.

You just said you ARE willing to put in the work, and we just said you can level up quickly and NOT slow down your kanji progress if you put in more work to do vocab lessons as well. Getting vocab wrong doesn’t slow down your level up.

Plus, all of us, including myself, make goals like that “Oh, I’ll go back and do this difficult task AFTER I do this other one…” Often times, we fail in that. You might get to that point, see 1k vocab just sitting there and decide to completely forego it, especially since it will be more difficult without having freshly guru’d the kanji.

Whatever path you take, just know what it entails and make sure you don’t have regrets. Good luck.


#8

Thanks for your advise. I really do appreciate it.

I just want to let you know that Japanese anime, games, music and culture helped me become interested in Japan to want to learn more.

It is very difficult to level up in just 7 days like how you guys did it. I wish I had an app on a smart watch to look at the critical items as often as I look at my watch to figure out what time it was while i’m away from my phone or computer (i.e. at work).

I keep getting it wrong it is delays leveling up. My average time leveling up was actually 26 days. But I spent around 176 days in level 6 (I started to use scripts and it helped a great deal) and helped me to level up because I was being bogged down by reviews from other levels instead of being more focused on the reviews to level up. I finally made it to level 7 with the help of scripts.

Each review card has two aspects to it, Reading and Meaning. Even though it says 100 cards to review, it’s really 200 reviews before that card number will go down to 0.
It really lasts nearly all day. I’m pretty slower than the average I guess. I love Japanese but just want to make it easier to learn the Kanji.

After all the program lets you level up by just Guruing the Kanji and Radicals… so if we can customize the way we order and organize our lessons and reviews, we should also be able to customize and reorder our learning by mainly emphasizing the Kanji.

Since you need to learn at least 2000 Kanji to even be able to read a newspaper… Kanji is more important than ever. I’m sure then I can start looking at the example sentences and pick up more vocab that way.

I do get your point. Does anyone know of a working Smart Watch app or a phone widget or lock screen that will display your WK Critical Items randomly every time you look at the time, lock screen or phone?


#9

Hrm… you guys do bring up a good point. Yes, I do feel when we finally Guru an item, we spent a lot of time correctly recalling that item as the time between reviewing and recalling increases.

I don’t want to get too far. I do like looking at the menus on the dash board and things over since its all listed there for reference. You know at the top of the dashboard where it says Levels and you click on it and select the level, it presents clearly and neatly all the radicals, kanji and vocab complete with their meanings and readings as well as other information like if you are apprentice, burned, guru, mastered or enlightened it etc.

The critical items list helps a great deal too. But you have to click on each item to see the meanings and readings since it just presents a list of of kanji and kana.


#10

You say that you need 2000+ kanji to be able to read a newspaper, but knowing all the kanji in the world isn’t going to help if you don’t know what they mean when they’re put together as words. I think that’s what people are trying to convey here. You can read through the newspaper article and say the WK-given meanings and readings, but that does nothing to help you understand what’s actually being conveyed in the text.

It’s certainly possible to level up in a reasonable amount of time and still complete the vocabulary lessons, but it depends on how much time you’re willing/able to devote to it.


#11

You know those two days in between where you wait for your newly learned Kanji to finally level up to Guru, that is the best time to learn vocabulary. Just do 10-20 vocab every day. I have been immersed in the language for about 6 years straight so I do all my vocab in one sitting most of the time. But just do some to prevent the backlog from crazily piling up.

It will also help you review the kanji reading of your Kanji (that you are trying to Guru) because most of the time the vocab will have the kanji’s onyomi reading.

Use your time wisely and you will be rewarded generously. Good luck to you.


#12

Also, when those kanji come around for master and englightened, there is very high chance you will have forgotten them unless you’ve reinforced them with vocabulary. It’s much easier for me to remember a Kanji when I can picture 2 or 3 words that it was used in.


#13

As a side note, if you feel like you are getting bogged down by the reviews, you could just try to do lessons at a slower pace, that way your reviews don’t pile up so fast.


#14

Levels are meaningless, it’s just a way to divide kanji/vocab up. If you are not leveling up, it’s because you don’t know the material. If you don’t know the material, you shouldn’t be leveling up.

If you can’t get through the material in the amount of time you are setting aside, then you need to set aside more time. There is no magic here, time and effort are required to learn a language.


#15

Also, about this, doing the vocabulary is a way to reinforce the kanji that you learn. Since leveling up is not gated by learning a certain % of vocab, if it is taking more time to level up because you are getting things wrong, it means you should be doing more vocabulary, not less. I am of the view that vocabulary is extremely beneficial in helping form contextual links between different words and also between the kanji themselves that is key to long term learning and retention. And having these contextual hooks makes learning future kanji significantly easier. Getting stuff wrong on an SRS is a strong signal to slow down and try to increase your accuracy, not a signal to try and speed up. You’re going to burn yourself out if you try and do it the other way around.


#16

Precisely why everyone here is wisely advising you not to mess with the reorder script.


#17

The vocab lessons are kanji lessons. It’s just a way to spread the material out.


#18

Something that might help you out is this timing script, which limits the time you are allowed to think on each answer. In my case it drastically cut down on my review times to a much larger extent than it increased my work load. If you think that you just might be giving yourself too much time to think, this might help you out!

Running the risk of beating a dead horse here… I used to think that knowing kanji = knowing words, but I can tell you from experience that even though I very rarely run into kanji I don’t recognise, I run into words I don’t understand all the time!

Also, even if the kanji can give you a hint or sometimes even strong indication as to the meaning, these things pile up! If you vaguely know every word in a sentence, those smaller uncertainties can add up to make the whole thing pretty much incomprehensible.

The reality is that, sure, you need to learn the kanji in order to be able to read the words. But the kanji are the means here. I really think you need to give up the notion that you can focus on the means in isolation. Eventually you’ll need to learn the actual words anyway, and as others are incessantly pointing out, you’re just losing out by putting this off.

The words themselves are really just another means to the end goal of reading actual japanese, and again, by putting that off you’re robbing yourself of putting in the time to adjust your brain to the language.

I guess an option might be to just get a bunch of the core10k example sentences and practice reading those, skipping the vocab entirely. Still though, don’t stop at the kanji.

If you use WK all vanilla-like you’ll probably get a decent enough mix I think. It really should adapt to whatever time you’re willing to give it!

ganbatte kudasai!

EDIT: For my own studies I made this spreadsheet of the core6000 sample sentences coupled with the highest WK level of their constituent kanji. Maybe you’ll find it useful. I imported it into anki and used it to study on my phone.


#19

I used the reorder script to do the radicals and kanji for one level and regretted it so much because after I leveled up I was still getting a ton of old vocab instead of new vocab that would reinforce the new kanji. I find it incredibly helpful to learn a kanji’s reading through vocabulary. I wish there was a way to guarantee that when I unlocked a kanji I would also immediately learn a new word that uses its most common on’yomi. It would help me out so much.

Vocab is important.


#20

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