Pronunciation of the vowel 'u'

[doncr]

I hear an old person speaking to be honest.

The younger ones produce a clear emphatic “R” (as in English “L”) at the start. The old guy is just conservative with his breath.

[nclbk]

@BrotGiraffe

I did come across that before but personally I can make both sounds using both rounded and unrounded lips. This does give both sounds a different quality, but it’s not what makes them different from each other.

But that’s not how vowels work. Basic differences between vowels can be described using three parameters: their height, their backness, and their roundedness. A vowel sound is therefore automatically different once you go from rounded to unrounded or vice versa.

[BrotGiraffe]

Sorry, yes, it does make them different. What I meant to say was that making a u sound without rounding the lips does not make it the japanese u. That’s just one step. The other being, as you say, differing the height and backness. So while not rounding the lips gets you closer to sounding more japanese, it’s not the sole difference between the japanese u and the English u.

In the examples I posted, I’m fairly sure that all speakers have unrounded lips, yet it still sounds different.

Edit: although not rounding the lips might just be enough, because as we’ve discovered in this thread, the ‘japanese u’ is very much a spectrum of sounds and there are both natives speakers who say it more like u and others more like ü. So in the end I’d say both can be considered correct.