Can someone explain the grammar pattern of Verb masu form + だす.
The explanation given for this is spatial appearance of something. And 2nd use case is commencement of something like rain and furidashita.
Ex 1眩しいと感じた途端 くしゃみが飛び出す
Ex 2 ニューズによると、昨日の雨で川の水が溢れ出したそうだ。
And verb masu form +komu.
The explanation given for this is spatial movement into something.
Can you explain a bit further what exactly it is that you are having trouble with? You wrote down the explanations already, so I don’t really know what to explain here…
It might also be helpful for you to know that these combined verbs often have special meanings that you can look up in dictionaries, e.g. for your examples
“Break out” feels close to stem + だす. It basically means that something suddenly happens/happened.
I dont think 込む can be added to any verb stem to create a new word. Search for the kanji 込 in WK and look at the words that use it to get a good idea. Or read this if you want to go in depth KOMU 込む Compound Verbs in Japanese (and How to Use Them)
Unfortunately, I haven’t been able to find anything about ~komu there, but as I understand it, it’s when something is being sort of crammed into something.
“込む” by itself means to be crowded. Like I said it earlier it has different meanings when used with different verbs. A general rule DOES NOT exist for it. Did you look at the WK examples? Its enough as a beginner to learn most of them. You can pick up new compounds as you continue to read. It is not a good idea to try to memorize every single compound verb that uses 込む.
As for " だす" it means take out but you just need to read my older message to know what it means.
Yes i looked into wk for 込む and i got 6 hits.im not premium so maybe the others are locked.
Since there is no rule and since one verb can go with either dasu or komu i would have to look into the meaning of the sentence and choose either dasu or komu?is my approach correct?
It seems pretty straight forward, but let me try to paraphrase.
Something “comes out” – 出=exit
Edit: Sorry, my example was me misremembering the vocab 日出(にっしゅつ) apologies 雨が降り出す – the rain comes out – i.e. appears – is an appropriate example though
Something “goes into” something else – 込=into
E.g. 吹き込む – to blow into – e.g. the wind is blowing into a room.
If your textbook doesn’t give more explanation than what you’ve pasted here, you might find it helpful to get a second source for grammar explanations. Sometimes just seeing it explained in different words can be what you need to make sense of it. I really like the Dictionary of Basic/Intermediate/Advanced Japanese Grammar; there are also some websites which are OK (eg bunpro makes their explanations available for free; here is its page on だす, for example).
I really like the Bunpro’s explanation for 出す. To sum it up, it basically means “to suddenly start to X”. When you bring out an action, you’re not literally
This is literally what it means, but this verb has become grammaticalized. What is the spatial appearance of an action? What happens when you “bring out” an action? You “suddenly start” that action!
Although like others said, 飛び出すand 飛び込む are set phrases and are now considered their own compound verbs. But they still originated from this grammar structure.
~込む
The Tofugu article @crabigator4508 mentioned is great, there’s also a podcast version of that article which is how I learned how to use it!
There’s 2 seperate Bunpro grammar points, but essentially they mean the same thing: to put into. The first is more literal, the second is a more metaphorical meaning, but they are connected:
Also I think comparing these two grammar points to each other may be what’s confusing you. Yes the verbs 出す and 込む have antonymical meanings, but their grammatical versions aren’t really connected as far as I can tell. 出す is more comparable to ~始める (to start doing something - 出す is a more sudden version of this). 込む is more of its own thing
Just a minor note. I think it’s 混む, so same reading, but different kanji.
込む would be “to go into” something.
@paintjob I think what might help you is adding a couple of combinations with either of these into an Anki deck and grinding them. Eventually it will become second nature.
Some more examples
思い出す - to recall, to get a thought (思い) out (出す)
思い込む - to be under an impression of something, to go into/inside (込む) of a thought (思い)
More you can find on jisho.org by using a wildcard like *込む
Thank you everyone.the burnpro explanations and example sentences really helped.I got confused because my textbook used the word spatial and i didnt really get it