Reading this, I feel like the thing you have to be careful with isn’t so much your initial study plan, but all the different advice you’re getting. Too many cooks spoil the broth and what not.
You’re getting a lot of advice from a lot of different people using different approaches to learning. You’ll somehow have to take this hotchpotch and make a decent learning path out of it.
Throwing in my two cents:
I believe that if you’re going for a high intermediate level - which if you keep putting in this time every day for two years you will be - it’s best to cut all the fluff. Focus on making immersion comprehensible as soon as possible so you can listen to podcasts, watch tv shows, read books and what not. That’s what’s going to make you fluent.
What I mean by cut the fluff is that language learners have this tendency to “over study” and not consider the opportunity cost. If you are doing one thing, that also means you are not doing another. Prioritize.
If I were to start over, I’d pick one tool each for learning kanji, core vocabulary and grammar. Move those along at a similar pace and a couple months from now you’ll be reading your first manga with decent comprehension.
Unless you want to speak right now for some reason, like it motivates you, don’t worry about early output. In direct disagreement with what some people have said, you don’t need it. You’ll be more efficient if you delay output practice for a while, focusing on understanding instead.
Grammar could be something like Genki or Tae Kim. Core vocab could be a core deck for Anki or jpdb. Kanji could be WaniKani, RTK or jpdb. (Or others, there is plenty of options)
I can attest to this. I took on too many resources at the beginning thinking it would somehow give me a speed boost. For a very short while that may have been somewhat true, but then I was crushed by the overlap between the material and found myself repeating effort by studying the same material over and over. And slowly losing motivation to continue because it seemed like I was trying to sprint through knee-deep molasses. I would be further along now if I had initially limited the resources I used.
Pick at most 2 resources for a single study area, and better still, pick 1 for each, and then 1-2 resources that cover multiple areas of study. And intersperse study with native material.
Language learning isn’t something where you put in effort studying and then 1 day the light switch flips on and you’re like, “Oh, I know the language now!” You are learning the language every day. You already “know” Japanese to some level from what you have studied so far, and every day you are just working to grow that knowledge. And the best way to grow in a language is to start consuming it like a native. It’s frustrating and mentally exhausting at times to fight over material you don’t fully comprehend, but that’s how you build comprehension.
I think so long as you’re enjoying yourself then it’s good, but if you start feeling burnout, definitely scale it back a bit!
I think of the ones you listed, Genki, WaniKani, and native media are the best three if you need to drop things at some point.
For native media, I really recommend YouTube - it’s super popular in Japan rn so there are tons of YouTubers, and a lot of the more popular ones do daily vlogs and wacky challenges with lots of repeating vocabulary and easy-to-follow situations. (Hikakin, Fischer’s, and Orutana Channel are great channels for this).
Also one thing I’ve found has really improved my Japanese is writing. Find a grammar point and play around with it to try to make it your own. Then you can post it on iTalki or HelloTalk (be careful about some creeps who think it’s a dating site, but it’s a good app) and get corrections by native speakers.
This looks like both a great and dangerous plan. Overloading yourself is a sure way to fail. From my personal experience using the power of hindesight, I wish I would have focused way more on Kanji and reading before moving to Japan. If you are a socialble person who likes making new friends/ social groups, the speaking and listening will come quickly. My one big piece of advice is every single day. Read a chapter in a manga, read 1 page in a light novel, watch 1 episode of an anime with Japanese subtitles. Get your brain tuned into Japanese becoming a permanent thing. I recently visited my family in Hawaii. It was the first time in 3 years I left Japan and I used no Japanese for 8 days. It was TERRIFYING how quickly my brain switched off Japanese. Simple conversations and everyday reading was really hard the first few days back. Best of luck!
I would totally echo nazan’s advice here. Your study plan sounds thorough and well thought out, but on the days where you find you don’t have the spare 2+ hours (or the motivation) remember just doing anything is better than doing nothing. Re-read a lesson you’ve gone over, do a few Duolingo exercises, whatever. And if you miss a day completely, no worries, just do something the next day (or the next day) - you don’t have to make up the time.
Regarding the textbooks, some of the grammar points you’ll come across in the Genki textbooks will not necessarily stick in your head first time through, it’s good to spend a little time on things that seem more difficult, but don’t get too hung up on completely understanding everything - you’ll come across grammatical structures and patterns thousands of times as you progress and eventually they’ll make sense, even if it’s not a eureka moment. Also good to look around at other resources and explanations online as sometimes just a different way of wording something can make a lot of difference in understanding.
I love the description: ‘extremely miniature immersion’.
Thank you very much for the advice! I have been struggling with output since I don’t know all that much yet, but thank you for letting me know that’s normal not to even be focused on until some words are built up. I think I’ll probably stop using so many different things eventually like you said and just pick one resource for each area, because I’ve noticed it’s a lot to take in, a whole lot of repeated information (which can be sorta boring), and sometimes a little bit confusing when there’s just too much to memorize. ありがとうございます!!
That’s interesting! I’ve honestly been feeling that feeling a bit too (probably more miniscule because I’ve only been studying for a few weeks), it definitely feels like a lot a lot, with a lot of repetition for things that don’t need that don’t need that much repetition. I like how you put language learning, that’s a fresh perspective I didn’t know I needed! ありがとうございます!
Ah thank you for the recommendations! I’ve definitely started to see a lot of repeating information throughout all the different apps and when it’s different, well, it’s a bit hard to keep track of lol. I’ll definitely give writing a shot as well, it’s certainly a challenge but it works, ありがとうございます!
Thank you! I think after seeing these replies I will cut down a bit, I see a lot of repeating material anyways that just ends up a bit confusing. I’ll have to work on reading some more, it’s very hard since my knowledge is pretty limited but it seems like a good way to help build some in-context vocabulary and grammar. It is very interesting how quickly a language can almost completely leave your brain! It’s a bit scary thank you for the input!!
The most important thing IMO is building a sustainable study habit. This is party a system for making sure you study every day and party a system for making studying fun so that you don’t burn out. A study journal revolutionized my habit (going strong for nearly two years now) and listening to a growing collection of Japanese music made studying more fun for me.
I noticed you mentioned both WK and RTK. I’ve done both extensively and it’s both helpful and hurtful. The problem is that they use different words for the same kanji in several cases, which creates frustration during study sessions. Consider focusing on just one (probably WK since it also teaches you reading).
You mentioned being low on cash, but if you can spare a little bit, I recommend Bunpro be part of your short list of tools to use daily. It had a huge impact on me because it combined grammar, reading, and listening into a single, efficient tool. Once you’ve mastered enough of this content, I’d recommend cancelling your subscription and switching to Satori Reader.
Thank you for the tips! I’ve been a bit hard on myself for the days that I can’t do so much, but that’s for sure where I start to lose motivation. The wide perspective does seem quite helpful in the long term, to make sense of more and more and understand it’s context (particularly with grammar). ありがとうございます!
Thank you, I think I’ll have to cut back a bit! You’re definitely right, I’ve been getting pretty confused with that conflicting information and tons and tons of repeats between WK and RTK. Thank you for the recommendations!
Hey there, I didn’t go through the replies so there’s mostly likely going to be some overlap but here we go:
Genki - the genkis are good, but don’t feel constrained to them (was an issue for me).
WaniKani - well we’re here after all aren’t we.
RTK - wouldn’t recommend tbh if you’re doing wanikani. I completed the RRTK deck (20 per day) before using wanikani and really wasn’t a fan of it.
Apps - keep it fun and not a chore. Don’t feel like you need to use an app everyday. Just do it to pass the time commuting, taking a shit or something similar lol.
Satori - great source, not for you yet. Could hinder you if you force yourself to attempt reading now.
Passive immersion - keep it fun and give just a tiny bit of effort to listen properly.
JP101 - love them and also would recommend their site.
Imo you have too much on your table, not just time-wise, but also content-wise. You have 2-3 kanji sources, 5 vocab sources, and 2-3 grammar sources.
So if I were you, my workflow would look like this:
WaniKani throughout the day / designated time. Preferably throughout the day.
Going through Genki in a steady and manageable pace (aim for 1 chapter per week or 2).
Mining words, sentences, grammar points (the grammar points are not crucial for mining. repetitive practice and immersion will do).
JP101 at a designated time.
Slowly you’ll get better and more experienced with the general language learning community and you’ll know how to proceed (Refold and the likes).
fyi I was also supposed to study abroad in japan (next year) but that shit was axed so the next time I’ll have the chance to do it will be in 2 years when I start my masters.
Haha :b I do still love Jalup - especially Jalup beginner, my favorite way to learn grammar fast and just get into immersion - but I’ll have to wait until the dust settles a little before I start recommending it again.
About the idea of immersing as much as possible, it is also bad if early (N4-N5) grammar are only shaky ground, that you can’t parse sentences properly. So if you are going to play a long and big game, get basics down properly. Even if you know a wide range of grammar, basics would still need to be at least good enough.
About Kanji and supplementing Wanikani, if to recommend a single best material, that would be wiktionary.org (as a reference). Starting RTK a little isn’t bad, but I think it can be dropped. Still, jisho.org isn’t bad for vocabularies. (Technically, Jisho vocab collection is also Wiki-like, specialized for Japanese, and still active.) jpdb.io can be used for vocabulary searching, as well as SRS, but I haven’t explored it enough.
About outputting, certainly it needs practicing, but I still recommend reading and listening much more, like 10 times as much. Also, gather a lot of vocabularies beforehand (and good vocabularies still depend on immersing enough).
Other than that, probably spend some effort of the basics of phonics, if you plan on listening or speaking. Small observations should be started at the beginning. (But I am not really sure how big the investment should be…)
I don’t think the RTK is necessary since you are using WaniKani. In general you have listed so many resources that you run the risk of getting burned out.
If you want to use textbooks you can. I don’t use textbooks personally as there are things textbooks don’t teach such as casual form, nuances, etc. You can start reading Crystal Hunters right away. Yes there are free graded readers from Tadoku, but a lot of them aren’t fun/exciting to read like Crystal Hunters. Crystal Hunters is a manga that teaches you Japanese. They have free guides separate from the manga that has a list of vocabulary and grammar used in their story. The grammar explanations are pretty clear in the guides too. The first book is free while the rest are just a few bucks.
Duolingo isn’t know for being a good app when it comes to learning Japanese. Quite a few native speakers on YouTube have said it’s not a good app so you can drop that. You can probably put Drops to the side for now. Drops doesn’t have all the WaniKani vocabulary (I remember trying to make a custom deck in Drops, but there were so many words WK didn’t have so I just stopped.)
Bunpo is a great grammar app for getting your toes dipped into the water of grammar. You could read Crystal Hunters and grammar you learn from there you can get extra practice through Bunpo. I don’t think you need Kanji Garden since you got WaniKani. You don’t want to overwhelm yourself with learning too many words from too many places.
Satori Reader is made for intermediate level Japanese learners so unless you are at intermediate level I wouldn’t recommend it at this time.
Focus just on learning kanji, vocabulary, grammar. For immersion practice Crystal Hunters would be perfect. The other things can just be things you listen to just for fun.
In my opinion just do WK, Bunpo, Crystal Hunters. It’s just three things so it won’t be too much/overwhelming. Trust me on this as right now you are only on level 2 of WK so you probably haven’t burned any yet. Reviews can get very intense on WK unless you control the amount of lessons you do. I’ve seen people with 100s to 1000s of reviews in WK. For now you can do all lessons, but a some point you can just do a certain amount per day rather than all at once. If you always do all the lessons they give you at once your reviews will be crazy high. (If you want to do Kaizen everything that’s fine too.)
Also if you like video games feel free to wishlist Nihongo Quest N5 and Shujinkou. Nihongo Quest N5 is coming out next year in March and Shujinkou doesn’t have a release date, but hopefully they come out next year. Both of these video games teach you Japanese and have an SRS system.
@BNDG@polv@RainbowBrite13
Thank you guys so much! I’m very thankful for all the support and advice, I’m starting to have a clearer picture of my goals and what is maybe just unnecessary right now. Thank you for all your help.
thank you for the input!!
so the next time I’ll have the chance to do it will be in 2 years when I start my masters.