Any tips on how to study Japanese effectively?

WaniKani
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What I’m doing so far right now is reviewing Hiragana and Katakana, because my interest in learning Japanese started in 2022. Ever since then, I’ve been going on and off with learning Japanese. The furthest point I’ve reached is memorizing Katakana and Hiragana.

I actually improved during that time in listening to Japanese and reading. Over the years, my interest in learning would go on and off because I kept losing time and motivation — mainly because I had no foundation and didn’t know how to properly study, even though I knew the steps: first Katakana and Hiragana, then grammar, reading, Kanji… basically everything.

That’s the problem: I don’t know how to do that properly. What I’m doing right now is downloading every app I think might be useful and spending time on all of them every day. I’m also looking at the book Minna no Nihongo, and I’ve looked at JFZ, but I don’t know if it’s worth it.

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I find most apps to be a waste of time. You’re better off just following a textbook and doing all the practice exercises in it than smashing a keyboard all day or playing games on your phone. Even better, get a native speaker as a tutor to help you work through the textbook so you can practice speaking and get real time feedback. Language was invented for the purpose of human communication. No application or AI can substitute for it.

My favorite textbook for beginners is IRODORI Japanese online course. But Genki and Minna will get the job done too. Just start one and stick to it.

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Overall, I quite agree, though I would still recommend

The free version is actually better, because one has to wait till the keys restore – and thus it doesn’t require a lot of time.

It does require knowing kana and some basic grammar though.

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Which apps exactly?

If you have listened to Japanese and reading, it would be wise to study grammar alongside, and learn vocabularies to support the grammar exercises. Following the lessons, step-by-step, as long as practically skills are targeted, grammar should build up fine. See Japanese Language > Resources particularly.

I have found learning vocabularies to be helpful, but it’s also about memory for me. Rather than letting SRS fail new items a lot, memorize them well for the first time. (SRS should be fine by itself for old items, however. Amount is more important.)

I also find listening to be helpful, which is easier to get started via textbook lessons.

If you are unable to progress, remember well, or getting inattentive somehow, making a study log Japanese Language > Study Logs (Public) could help (and let people comment).

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Careful, a lot of apps are not very good. They might still count as “better than nothing”, but that doesn’t mean they’re good.

Typically people want something for grammar, kanji, vocab, reading, and listening. Depending on the resources, multiple of these can be offered by the same services.

My personal favorite resources:

  • WaniKani was quite effective. I’m taking a break from it right now, since my sub expired and I’m not renewing ASAP, but I can’t deny it was very effective.
  • MaruMori is a great all around resource. Grammar, Kanji, Vocab, Reading passages. Only downside is no native audio.
  • NativShark is a good listening-form resource since everything has native audio, and the grammar explanations are pretty good. Kanji is technically taught, but not effectively, so pairing NS with WK is very popular for people who want to drill kanji.
  • JapanesePod101. This one is a mixed bag. The podcast itself is…eh…Especially the beginner (Level 1-2) stuff has way too much English, and the grammar explanations aren’t very good. But the dialogues are pretty awesome, especially in the Level 2+ range, with many different speakers, different accents, different speeds, and the transcripts + line-by-line audio are actually really nice features for doing intensive listening.
  • Youtube. So much listening stuff on youtube for people starting out and advanced learners alike. Beginners would likely go to Comprensible Input Japanese, Nihongo Learning, Japanese Super Immersion, Nihongo Con Teppei, and so many more. Grammar explanations with Cure Dolly.

And of course so many other good resources exist that other people use.

On the free side, while I don’t use it, I’ve seen a lot of people recommend Renshuu for people starting out.

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you need a plan that is more strategic.

I recommend reading this guide: What do you need to know to learn a foreign language? - available in quite a few languages:

https://www.wgtn.ac.nz/lals/resources/paul-nations-resources/paul-nations-publications/publications

Make a plan, track a couple of things of what you do, then set a date with yourself in the calendar, say, 3 months from now. Review what you actually did, what went well, want went not so well.

Then starting from what you actually did, reread the guide and adjust your plan, being realistic to build on what you did before rather than unrealistically trying to do everything. Then you can ask much more specific questions: which app or textbook for grammar? What is the next thing you want to do and what is holding you back from doing it? Then people can help you with more specific recommendations.

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Learning Japanese (beginner)
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This is the best advice if you can arrange it. I had a tutor every few weeks and it was the best thing I did to have a direction for my learning.

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Hey there!

I think something else that doesn’t appear to have been mentioned just yet is how important it is to try to have a regular habit in place. Honestly I think it’s extremely important, that way you always feel like you’re making some forward progress each day, or even just most days. Whatever doesn’t overwhelm you in the long run.

I also think that the advice of finding something and sticking with it is critical. Jumping from one method to another can be helpful like how trying on clothes is: you’re just seeing how it fits, what works and what doesn’t. But it’s important not to retread your steps too much, otherwise you won’t feel that there’s any forward momentum which can be really demotivating.

I really don’t think there’s any one path forwards, especially depending on what your short and long term goals with Japanese are, but I think that having a textbook and scheduling even a little bit of time to work on it (even just to review) every day or every other day is a strong place to start from. For now, getting the kana down and making some effort to see them “in the wild” (whatever that means for you) is a great starting position.

I’m working on Minna right now actually; if you do decide to follow through with it even for a bit, feel free to hit me up and I’d be happy to exchange notes :slight_smile:

Best of luck on your studies!

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to be honest, the thing that helped most to get me off the ground with kanji and actually speaking and such was … taking a class. if an in-person class fits within your budget and schedule, i’d highly recommend.

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I dont know if my method would work for you but feel free to give it a try.

After learning hiragana and dipping into Katakana, I did the Marugoto/ Irodori website for 3 months and started listening to Nihongo con Teppei for beginners about 5 days a week on my commute and sometimes during lunch breaks. I then went through the Genki 1 textbook, found it overwhelming so picked up Japanese from Zero along with the videos. I started wanikani around starting JFZ. I agree with the others to get a tutor around this time if you can afford it. I did this for about 6 months and it helped with the N5 grammar and continued into N4. After jfz 1, I finished Genki 1, started Genki 2, but found it boring. So I went to Shinkanzen Master with the goal of the JLPT N4. With this in mind I started listening to the next level of Nihongo con Teppei and YUYU podcast. You must make it a habit. Even when you find it difficult. I also branched out to some community tutors on italki for conversation lesson. (I haven’t kept up with this because of cost but I plan to continue soon). I then continued with this, shinkanzen master, JLPT listening on Youtube and the same podcasts, just increasing the difficulty bit by bit. I am far from where I want to be but with consistency, it hasn’t been bad.

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The points folks have made in this thread are good. I’d like to add a few things that are important to me personally. I’ll asterisk this by saying that I’m relatively early on in learning Japanese, meaning:

  • I can read kana comfortably
  • I can deduce the meanings of kanji if I know the radicals
  • I’m going through Genki I right now
  • My vocabulary is pretty limited

However I’ve learned two other languages through structured study before, so I’d hope my points are still relevant :slight_smile:

@mitrac points to “What do you need to know to learn a foreign language?” - I skimmed this, but I think the approach is sound and resonates with me. Related to this paper, I realized I’d established the following methodology for myself beforehand already:

  • Why do I want to know the language?
  • What do I already know?

And as I make progress, I’m constantly asking myself: “What is the minimum I need to know/do in order to do the next thing I want to do?”

These are pretty much my guiding principles. For example, in my first week of studying Japanese, I knew the following:

Why do I want to know the language?

I enjoy Japanese culture, and I have a trip planned to Japan in the medium-term future (years from now). I think it’s kind of important to get specific about this. What about Japanese culture do I like? For me it’s food, history, anime, music. What about me traveling to Japan matters? I want to be able to speak the language to be able to learn more about individuals from Japan, and learn more about parts of the culture I wouldn’t otherwise have access to if I didn’t speak the language.

(Also, I just enjoy languages in general - they’re a reflection of the cultures that speak them - so that probably helps)

What do I already know?

I have years of passive exposure to Japanese through media, so I know random words and grammar. I have rudimentary knowledge of Chinese/Mandarin through my partner, including hanzi/radicals/how they’re formed/used/just general exposure to them, so I know that will help me with kanji. I have some knowledge of Korean from prior study, and Korean grammar is weirdly close to Japanese grammar, plus both are influenced by Chinese. Cool.

What is the minimum I need to know/do in order to do the next thing I want to do?

This is the main thing that guides my practice. I hate the feeling of learning something and thinking “well, I’m never going to apply this/I have no idea what this means/how to use it in context”, so I avoid it as much as possible. Answering the above question is what helps me do that.

Break down your goal. e.g:

  • “I want to learn about Japanese culture through direct interactions in Japan”
  • → “I need to be able to relate to other people”
  • → “I need to be able to express concepts about myself and ask questions/understand concepts about other people”
  • → “I need to be able to speak in a coherent way”
  • → “I need to know how the grammar works”
  • → "I need to know what ”は” says
  • → “I need to be able to read”
  • → “I need to be able to read kana”

… that’s kind of a contrived example and it’s specific to reading because I wanted to illustrate the thought process in going from “big goal” to “specific goal”, but hopefully it illustrates the idea. Basically, between where I am now and the big thing I want to do, there are tiny steps I can take that demonstrably make me better at the big thing.

From here, there’s a fourth question I ask myself:

What am I bad at?

This one’s more straightforward. Take the thing you’re worst at and constantly do it. I’m bad at speaking and I don’t have many conversation partners, so I shadow literally everything I hear. I also push myself when I shadow - as fast as possible, even if I don’t know what the hell they’re saying, paying very close attention to pronunciation and mirroring the speaker’s pronunciation exactly. (Shadowing is basically its own topic though which you can look into yourself :slight_smile: )

Anyway, it’s like how a bodybuilder chooses which muscles to focus on: It’s always “the one that’s furthest behind”.

On choice of app/material: As others have said, it basically doesn’t matter - pick what you enjoy enough to actually want to use. Agonizing over the best practice tool is pointless if you never end up using it. I’m using Genki, Renshuu, WaniKani, and Anki.

This got long, but hope it helps. Good luck!

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These are the app I’m experimenting rn and checking if they really are helpful

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There is a list of Discord servers here – 🖥️ Master List of Discord Servers for Japanese Learners

Renshuu has a website (renshuu.org) and Discord. I think it has good contents, but I don’t have good experience with either the website or the app.

LingoDeer isn’t bad as far as I have tried.

I heard someone use Busuu. There might be rarer people that use Bunpo, but Bunpro (with an r) is more popular here (created by a WK user, using SRS style similar to WK).

Where is Tsurukame, or some other clients, or do you use the website, or do you not use WK?

Though, imo, boil down first to the apps you really use.

Personally I learned grammar and phrases first, but I underestimated the amount of vocabularies needed, the lower threshold that crack the JP world experience. (PDF from mitrac also tells what vocab or what to remember first.)

And then, a few years later, WK helped with that. Remember well on the first days, but prioritize the streak of days to remember rather than binge or scraping a lot of everything just on the surface. Try to focus on a few at a time before ever deciding you can’t remember well. (And then I moved on to Anki, where I don’t like default settings which doesn’t stick well until WK style.)

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the truth is there isn’t “one” proper way to study.

unfortunately, there is a great variance in which methods are effective for which people.

there are some common things - like SRS being effective for most people (simply because of how human memory works) - but in terms of how to keep motivation, how to retain things, how to gradually expand knowledge — there isn’t one magic solution

for me - i studied Japanese as a teen , and had no issue memorizing the alphabet or some basic phrases, but only when i got to university and did 3 years of Japanese did I really start learning the language properly

what i did do all those teen years though is watch hours upon hours of japanese anime and dramas, which in itself had a lot of “implicit” value - in developing an ear for how the language sounds like, and for how various words are uttered

that doesn’t mean that 3 years in university is necessary for everyone, nor does it mean it would even be effective for everyone

for me personally it worked because i have no self-discipline of my own.

it just means you sort of have to find the thing you haven’t tried before - which would cause you to commit to it

once you are persistent and determined, then all that remains is just the question of effectiveness, and that’s no big deal (e.g. is it really that important if you become an expert in something in 2.5 years or in 6?)

tutors or courses are what i’d suggest simply becasue you mentioned losing motivation.

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You’ll have to ultimately find what works for you, however I recommend avoiding apps completely for learning grammar. Pick a grammar book like Genki and just stick with the series’ progression until you finish. Big mistake I made was not sticking with one and thinking immersion would solve all my problems.

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Can you please recommend me some books? My problem as well is i keep changing books and don’t know which are better

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What do you have?

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I was in the same boat, like many others couldn’t wrap my head when figuring out what was the best way for me to effectively learn Japanese. I started by learning kana and tried using the Tae Kim guide, but I didn’t click well at first.

After some time I approached the JFZ series and it really helped me getting started. I needed something that I would’t find overwhelming and it fit my needs perfectly. The site is even better since it has audio (one of the critical points of the books it the lack of listening). Many people don’t like the progressive introduction to kana, while some have had luck with it. In my case I already used tools such as realkana/kanapro, so I didn’t need it. Another plus for JFZ is the video series on the Youtube channel.

I also did the Genki series (actually, I’m about to finish Genki 2 now) and I think it’s good, but more classroom oriented than JFZ, and not gonna lie I skipped most of the group exercises because of that. Compared to JFZ it cover more slighy more kanji and assumes you know hiragana and katakana already (there are kana charts in Genki 1). When I finish, I will spend some time practicing and doing some immersion, but eventually I plan to move on to Quartet, which is basically the Genki sequel for intermediate Japanese. Oh and yeah, for Genki lessons as well you will find plenty of videos on YouTube.

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One of my method is to watch familiar Jdrama with Japanese subtitles like this very old drama. Good for my listening and reading.

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Genki and jfz