How does it all come together? (tips from people further along)

Japanese Language
1

Hey all!

I’m a few weeks in and really enjoying it so far. Kanji + meanings are starting to stick, and the SRS rhythm makes sense to me.

But I keep coming back to the same question: how do you actually put it together? WaniKani is clearly the foundation, but how does it all come together?

A few things I’d love to hear from people further down the road:

  • Speaking: How did you start? Did you wait until you had some base, until you reached level 60, or until you found tutors? Curious what actually had an impact vs what felt productive but wasn’t.
  • Grammar: What did you pair with WaniKani, and when did you start? Genki, Bunpro, Tae Kim, or something else? Did you run it alongside from day one or again wait till level 60 :sweat_smile:?

And finally, there is the question of pacing I’m very curious about:

  • Level Up Pace: What pace do people tend to settle into for levelling up? I’m generally on a 14-day-per-level pace.
  • Light Bulb Moment: When did it stop feeling like you were just memorising characters and start feeling like you were learning a language? Like the moment something clicked, and reading/listening stopped being pure decoding. Was there a specific level or milestone when that happened, or is it more gradual than that?

I know there are a lot of questions there, and I’m not looking for a magic bullet! I just want to hear how real people stitched the pieces together, and really appreciate any thoughts!

Thank you all in advance!

Edit: So many responses…I never would have expected. Thank you so much. You made my day and reframed my learning. Summarising for any future folks like me that may stumble here:

  • Keep WK steady, but stop treating it as the whole plan
  • Start light grammar now (Genki or Tae Kim), not “later”
  • Get native input in early, even when I understand almost nothing
  • Try to keep speaking so as not to fall behind in the reading
  • Pick things I actually like so this stays fun
2

Personally I would suggest that it is not. The foundation of Japanese is learning how to say and understand stuff: basic phrases, grammar, learning some words. All of that is common to any language. A good textbook is the traditional curated path through those early stages, though not the only possibility. WK is focused on teaching you a specific thing that’s required for Japanese[*], which is the kanji. It also teaches you some vocab, but the vocab selection is biased towards what helps to reinforce and make use of the kanji learning. I would recommend having some plan for learning Japanese which is the primary; you can then make that easier by adding WK alongside it to help with the kanji aspect of the language.

[*] Even there, it’s only required for reading and writing. Back in the 50s and 60s it was much more common I think for learners to start with the spoken language, and ignore the written language entirely until they were quite advanced.

3

Thank you for that response!

Out of curiosity, do you have a system that has worked for you? A textbook, a course, or something else?

4

I started with in person classes working from textbooks like Minna no Nihongo.

5

I personally did focus on WaniKani early on with everything else taking the backseat. It did work well for me because I was mainly concerned with being able to rest Japanese before anything else. As a result my Japanese abilities are completely lopsided. I don’t regret my decision, but it’s something to keep in mind.

6

Thank you very much! Then I think I have my answer. Start with some textbooks, and even better, take some in-person classes!

7

Thanks for the read! I was telling myself to focus on the reading and learn the language from the ground up. But I think I need to start striking a good balance between read/write and speak/understand

8

It might not be the foundation of Japanese language, but it is the foundation of Japanese language studying routine.

WK provides a minimal daily routine.
Yes, it’s not meant to replace other ways of studies, but it is a good foundation, upon which other Japanese studies can be built. Because daily routine is crucial for studying.

But yes, some grammar resource like Tae Kim or Genki – is certainly required as well.
And then, once one becomes able to read simple stuff – reading / listening resources like

https://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/easy/

are required too.

But WaniKani is a great place to start.

9

Caveat: I suck at this… I am probably somewhere around the n4 level with huge gaps.

2 hours a day I spend listening. Using mostly JLAB and core 6k anki decks. I would like to do more native immersion but dont have the energy after clearing those anki decks. I highly recommend both decks.

1.5 hours a day I speak. This is vocab I learned from several sources (pimsluer, anki core 6k, wanikani, other). I turn them into anki flashcards with English on the front and kanji, hiragana, and audio on the back. Mix of pure vocab and sentences.

1 hour is wanikani… I add 20 new items per day… if i dont know the word I make it an anki flashcard as described above… I want to think of a concept and immediately have my lips blast the japanese

I do 30m bunpro for “fun” and bc I need the basic understanding of how the language works… jury is still out on if this is an effective use of my time in the court of my mind

I am supposed to be doing a pimsluer lesson every day… 30 min

Satori reader is awesome but I only do it around twice a week… reinforcing wanikani with reading is essential but I dont make the time

The above is the ideal but doesnt always happen.

Dont know if its working (remember I suck at this) but its the train I am on for now. My goal is to be fluent asap

Interested in other, more advanced people’s learned replies as well.

Great question and good luck!

10

To answer the OP’s question, in my case it came sort of like in tiers.
Tier 1 was when I was getting the very basics – kanji and grammar.
Tier 2 was when I became able to read simple resources, adapted for beginners, like the ones I’ve shared in the previous post
Tier 3 is where I’m now – being able to read easy, but non-adapted materials – mostly, manga.
Tier 4 is when I would be able to switch to harder reading materials like light novels and then not-so-light novels. However, I’m not quite there read

Anyway, best of luck with your studies! wricat

11

i think the lightbulb moments for me as far as kanji were:

  • reading 丁度 wayyyyy early and recognizing that it was a word i’d already heard and learned without kanji.
  • correctly guessing the reading of a word based on the on’yomi readings of similar kanji
  • or conversely, having a pretty decent sense of a word’s meaning based on knowing the kanji for it

these happened outside of WK, you’ll notice, but were absolutely facilitated by WK.

I think grammar at the level of Genki 1–2 is the maximum you really need; beyond that it’s more “these are patterns of word use” than “this is where the verb goes”, which is very important still but maybe can be learned a bit more through or in tandem with exposure to native material. honestly even “this is where the verb goes” can be learned through exposure, but i do know that for me the sheer amount of information in terms of new words, new kanji, etc, can sometimes really overwhelm my ability to understand and comprehend…

highly recommend graded readers if you’re wanting to dip your toes into reading but haven’t done much yet. they gave me my first really good feeling of being able to rock-solid understand something in Japanese.

as for output… speaking i’m definitely the least practiced in, although i have a pretty decent ability to perform the phonemes and to be cognizant of morae and っ and such… idk what you’re like in your native language, but i have a terrible (fun) habit of attempting to mimic precisely fun utterances i overhear? in the context of language learning i think that’s probably helpful even for accent purposes…

i also highly recommend casually text chatting in Japanese… maybe flirt with somebody, who knows hahahaha

12

I’m not sure how valuable my input is, but I’ll share it nonetheless.

I studied Japanese in college, went to Japan for summer classes in 2015, graduated with a minor in Japanese studies in 2017 and then proceeded to not touch the language for 6 years… lost it all (pretty much).

I got a spark to start back up in 2022 and it’s been a slow grind since then. Scouring the internet for resources that I enjoyed and grabbed my attention. I started WaniKani and JapanesePod101 and they were great! I was learning things I was never taught in college, specifically Kanji. Anyways you didn’t ask for a life story (sorry), just trying to give some backstory to my starting point. (I always hate when people are like “just do this thing and you’ll succeed” without giving context to their life situation, especially if they live in Japan).

What I have found as I grow my Japanese is that there are cycles.

Learning → Studying → Using → Understanding

Language learning is just pattern recognition if you think about it. It takes time for your brain to solidify what you’ve learned. I have yet to have that breakthrough moment where everything effortlessly makes sense, and honestly, I don’t think I ever will, I think it will be a slow and gradual increase in understanding. I felt that I was still at an N5 level until just recently when I was presented with a ton of N4 example sentences and realized I understood each one. (so I guess I’m N4 proficient now). I imagine that’s how it will be with N3 and N2 as well.

What I’ve loved about WaniKani is learning a Kanji for a word I already recognize. For instance, today I learned 進 (advance) which is used in the word 進める (すすめる- to advance) (I just picture commander Erwin from Attack on Titan yelling it). Now that word and kanji are in my tool belt. I’ll slowly add more and more words and kanji, some I will forget and need to go back and study.

I think the biggest piece of advice I can give is:

“The more you use it, the easier it will be to remember”

If you are only ever Learning and Studying, but never Using it, you won’t enter the Understanding phase. To clarify, “Using” is seeing/hearing it out in the wild (manga, anime, podcast, tv shows). By the time you get to level 10, you’ll forget what you learned at level 5 because your brain just needs to remember it till it’s burned and then forget it, unless you’re still actively using it outside of WaniKani.

This is long (I’m so sorry).

One last thing I will say is that I look at the categories of language learning (Reading, Writing, Listening, and Speaking) as buckets. As I progress some buckets are more full than others, and I’m constantly trying to make sure that one category isn’t lagging behind the rest because each bucket strengthens the others; that’s just my method.

Okay, TLDR: Language learning is gradual, if you are consistent in studying each day, you WILL make progress. The speed at which you do so is dependant on your own ability and is different from person to person, so please don’t compare yourself to others except to increase your own motivation. Don’t only use WaniKani, get out into the world and start using what you’ve learned. Jump into full immersion as soon as you can (I recommend Nihongo Con Teppei and Comprehensive Japanese), you’ll start to hear the things you’ve learned and that’s when it will all start to come together.

13

I can’t say I’m great at Japanese yet, but I’ll answer as best as I can.

Speaking

I am definitely weak in this area. I read my vocabulary items out loud, and read some sentences sometimes. I am trying to speak Japanese more, especially as I am more able to piece together sentences.

Grammar

I use Tofugu’s grammar articles to study grammar points. Usually I read about grammar points that I’ve seen recently, or stuff that I know of and am curious about.

Level Up Pace

I go very slow. I think I usually level up in around a month. This is because of the order I learn my items, which may be changing soon. I keep my lessons at 5 items a day. This keeps the reviews at a good pace for me, while I’m still learning things.

Light bulb moment

I don’t think I’ve had a moment where it all just clicked for me. As I study kanji, vocabulary, and grammar and read and listen more, it gradually comes together and I get excited and encouraged when I can understand what someone is saying. It’s especially encouraging when I understand something without thinking about it. Sometimes I do have realization moments where I think, “Oh, this is an actual language!”

I also write out kanji, which is fun, educational, and helps me remember them better. I copy Bible verses which are my sentences.

I’m sure you’ll hear this a lot, but being involved with native material will definitely help! Manga, other books, video games, videos, movies, and shows, for some examples. You don’t have to understand everything (unless you’re watching a good show; maybe leave the subtitles on :wink:), but seeing what you do understand and looking up new things is very encouraging!
Or, if you’d like, look up some specific words that you personally can use! If you cook, look up some items or ingredients. If you’re a student, look up some subjects or words you might use. Maybe something you could use at your job. Whatever could get you more accustomed to using Japanese.

I’m glad you’re enjoying Wanikani! Enjoy your studies!

14

Hi there! I am no virtuoso at Japanese by any means but I am a wise old man and I have some things to share that I hope may be of some use to you.

  1. Making your studies enjoyable is by far the most important thing. Don’t ever let it become a grind. Make daily Japanese study something so fun that you can’t wait to do it. With every thing you learn, rejoice, and trust that it’s going to all add up, even if you wonder if it’ll ever add up to something. It will, it’ll take a while, but it will.
  2. Human connection is very important and will make it feel more like you are achieving something. If you’re learning speaking, do whatever you can to find a speaking partner that you like talking to, ideally a tutor, even early on. If you’re here for manga or anime or whatever it is, work hard to find a community of people to share the experience with. Language is, fundamentally, a tool that humans use to connect with each other, directly or indirectly, so tie that element into your study and it will make it all so much more meaningful and fun.
  3. Try to learn something every day, i.e. have a daily routine of some sort. Even if you only learn for 5 minutes or only one word or only listen to one song, do something. This is essential. Of course maybe you’ll be sick sometimes or have a crazy day or whatever. On a normal day have a normal routine. My routine and yours will differ. Your routine will be doing the things you live and enjoy most and that are most useful to you to learn the Japanese you want to learn.

I agree with all that has been said by others in this thread, but I thought it was important to throw these things in there too.

Have fun and let us all know how you go over the coming weeks and months!

15

There’s no point at which it just clicks and all of a sudden you can understand everything, it’s a very slow gradual process where your understanding increases over a very long period of time.

Having tried numerous ways to learn Japanese my advice to you is find the things you enjoy, once you’ve got a decent foundation in grammar of course. Forcing yourself to do boring things will only see you burn out and give up.

For me, I play Steam games in Japanese using a tool called Marudex to translate vocab and kanji I don’t know, which I then add to custom MaruMori decks. There are of course many obscure uncommon words in video games, but as I’d be playing them anyway I think it’s worth it.

I watch anime and Japanese dramas/movies in Japanese with Japanese subs. Harder work than gaming as it’s rapid fire, but I encounter fewer obscure words.

I read manga and books in Japanese. Manga is generally fine, just new vocab to take in. Books are harder as the grammar is obviously far more advanced.

I listen to numerous Japanese podcasts. Some aimed at learners (Yuyu, Mai, Akane, Miku, Sayuri etc), and some native ones (ゲームなんとか、誰かと誰かのデーみ, しゃべりGAMER). The native ones are tough.

I do grammar lessons on Marumori. The closest to regular learning and the least engaging, to me anyway.

I would describe my ability as lower N2. Sometimes I can understand stuff fine, sometimes it’s a real struggle. It really depends on the content.

I think my main advice would be find what you like and do more of it. If you’re not enjoying it, it will never stick.

16

WOW! So many different responses…Thank you all so much for taking the time to share your experiences with me. I did not expect this at all. Thank you all so much!

Reading through everything, a few threads keep coming up, and they’ve genuinely reshaped how I think about this.

The big one is use it or lose it. @pm215, @trunklayer and @Rychu all hit this from different angles, and Rychu’s Learning → Studying → Using → Understanding framing really resonated with me. I’ve been treating WK as “the main thing”, when there’s more to it and better/different ways to lay the foundation. Can’t wait for the moment I see a word in the wild that I recognise! But from today, no more pure SRS grind in a vacuum.

A little moment that made me happy yesterday that I wanted to share: I learned the word 花火 (very pretty word, I must say), and I had a small lightbulb moment because it reminded me of the Hanabi Movie by Takeshi Kitano and was super cool to finally know how its written!

P.S. Awesome movie if you havnt seen!

On the grammar question, it seems like the consensus is Genki/Tae Kim alongside WK, not after. @pm215, @trunklayer,@Minimuffins, appreciate you for pointing me to Tofugu, doing in-person classes, and the NHK Easy/graded reader stuff! I’ve been pretty scared of the grammar and have been putting it off a bit. Need to dive in…

I don’t want to make this a long thanking rant, but there are a lot more faces here who shared their takes and stories, @rumrivercato, @Alonzo-xyz, @simias,@Steven2673626, and @kotatsu, and I wanted to appreciate you all.

So to summarise all my learnings from you all:

  • Keep WK steady, but stop treating it as the whole plan
  • Start light grammar now (Genki or Tae Kim), not “later”
  • Get native input in early, even when I understand almost nothing
  • Try to keep speaking so as not to fall behind in the reading
  • Pick things I actually like so this stays fun

I’ll report back in a few months and let you know how it’s going, or when I hit my “AHA!” moment!!

Thanks again. I really appreciate you all. Such a fun and open community. It really gave me a burst of energy hearing from you all :heart:

17

Well the community is 90% (okay secretly 95%) of the reason I open wanikani daily and do my lessons and reviews…its much more fun to engage with people through mangas or reading articles or some discussion about a new or old archaic word :relieved_face:

Autumn readathon is coming so do join us :smiley: it will be fun :maple_leaf: