Focusing on the Kanji

Since the introduction of the “Advanced” button for choosing the new lessons to learn i’ve been skipping vocabulary lessons to do them at a later time and focusing on the kanji.
Is there any reason not to focus on leveling up and learning all the kanji before going for the vocabs?

My items look like this:

  • 52 Apprentice
  • 283 Guru
  • 316 Master
  • 1123 Enlightened

I’ve found that vocabs using alternate readings of kanji leads often to mistakes in the long run so i feel like they would slow me down and flood the queue compared to learning the kanji first and then going for the vocabs.

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I think that depends a bit on what your goal is and how well you do with just the kanji. Learning the vocab can help you memorize the readings and learn how the kanji are actually used, which will enable you to read better. Reading can in turn help you get better at japanese in general.
I currently prioritize Radicals > Kanji > Vocab but I still manage to get through all of them for the levels (~20-25 lessons + ~180 reviews a day).
But this depends on how big of a workload you can and want to handle. I think the vocab can be very beneficial and at least to me, is a big part of what it is about in the end. I can’t really do much with just the kanji.

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Mistakes are good. You’re supposed to forget them and then recall the kanji when you see them. You shouldn’t get vocab for the kanji before it reaches guru.

I wouldn’t leave any vocab for later anyway since they are there to help you reinforce the kanji you already learned. I used to skip vocab in early stages and now I still have some vocab from levels 10-30 unburned. Since some vocab might be harder for you to remember, it might hurt you in the long run if you don’t get them in the SRS.

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At one point I only did kanji because I wanted to level up fast and get to vocab I was excited for. But then I had 400 lessons stockpiled and it was a mess. There are multiple posts of level 60 users who have to do 4000 something lessons because they only did kanji to speedrun 60.

What I’m doing now is looking at the vocab for each level and picking the easier vocab first - words I may already know from reading, or simple jukugo words with expected readings. I try to dedicate the difficult vocab to a day where I have a lot of mental energy to really focus on them. (I am still currently getting 0/0 lessons/reviews on each level). Basically I’d rather do 50 easy lessons on day 1 and save 10 hard lessons to really focus on for day 2.

One option is for words with weird meanings you try to find example sentences of them in the wild - or make your own. Just something to practice those extra.

+1 to this. Language learning isn’t a “pass or fail” test. Your accuracy percentage is a good indicator of whether you’re focusing (because if you weren’t paying attention it would be near 0%), but it doesn’t really matter if it’s 60% or 80% or 90% or 95%. Mistakes are only a sign you need to study that item a bit more.

The specific answer to this is related to your goal for Japanese. If you’re just aiming for level 60 then vocab is kind of unnecessary. If you want to use Japanese then vocab is arguably more important than kanji (but kanji are still required to build the vocab so kanji aren’t unimportant).

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I recently asked a similar question, in case its answers help you: Beginner - Pick radical/kanji lessons or not?

I have reached the conclusion that, given that I am a beginner, I should also learn the vocabulary. After all, you need the actual words to speak the language. Kanji alone will only enable you to read, but not to understand.

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Thanks for the link.

I think it’s down to preference then. Going kanji over vocabulary may delay my ability to immerse in japanese content, but i would then work on the vocabulary when i can actually read the kanji and translate them.

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You can’t really “translate kanji”, though. When you’re reading, the only thing that matters is words. Those are written with kanji, which may provide a helpful hint if you can’t quite remember the word, but it’s the words that matter. Plus there are so many kanji that you shouldn’t think of “learning kanji” as a do-up-front task like “learn hiragana” was; you’ll be interleaving occasionally encountering new kanji with learning new vocab pretty much forever.

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I would not skip vocab and learn kanji only.

In the lower levels many kanji have basic meanings and are often words on their own.
So you get the feeling that just learning kanji makes sense.

But in the upper levels you will come across many kanji that are quite abstract and also
many have similar meanings. The vocab is what gives them their meaning and helps me remember them, especially the readings. You will, for example, have so many kanji with readings さい and ざい and せい …

The last few levels, learning the kanji alone has become quite taxing for me and I prefer learning vocab, because it is a lot faster and easier to remember and in the end, the goal of all of this.

In the beginning, learning words with multiple kanji seemed difficult. Now I always pick the 3 or 4 kanji words first, because they’re the easiest to remember.

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Yes! Please consider what I wrote below and the two comments above!

Except it doesn’t work that way, kanji have multiple readings, not just the one on the pink kanji card, so… might as well get used to it, and make those mistakes now figuring out where it is read that way and where it is not, rather than having to relearn much of it and still make those mistakes later.

The no vocab strategy sounds like saving up a world of frustration later. You can read anything now with furigana (if you learn a bit of grammar and ask questions), and it’s going to be hard whether you know kanji or not, so might as well get started. Otherwise later, you’ll have to learn to read, plus learn all the vocab readings, and it’s going to feel like starting over.

The reason is (just a simple example) say you go full speed and burn a simple kanji like 行 6 months or so in. You’ve got 6 months minimum before you start reading with this plan, so by the time you finish, you’ll have long forgotten the reading was こう or whatever WK teaches, probably the meaning, too, and anyway both will be a moot point the first time you see it as 行う. Multiple that across hundreds of kanji that will be forgotten, and I’m not sure what that strategy gains at all. It’s going to be a lot of effort to learn, much will be forgotten, and the other readings and meanings have to be learned anyway.

This is just from my own experience and years of reading level 60 posts and seeing lots of posts saying - do your WK reviews, but also learn vocab and learn to read asap, vs very few saying, I’m so happy I just learned kanji only ASAP. So maybe you’re one of those few but maybe take a bit of time to consider the views of well-meaning people trying hard to convince you otherwise.

I was trying to find your motivation, which seems to be this. I can understand that - as it seems from your current vantage point that it’s too much information and the mistakes are slowing you down. So removing 2/3 of the information to get a better accuracy on the least important 1/3 is a false economy. To address your core concern (the mistakes and that slowing you down), what most people recommend is do something to make that more effective and memorable. For most people this is doing grammar study, reading really easy graded readers and doing everything to get reading to take part in the absolute beginner club when they are ready. Japanese children have the same problem, that’s why furigana exists.

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When I started learning Japanese and kanji, I think I had the wrong impression that all kanji have a meaning by themselves (like the words 人, 水, 火).

I often asked a Chinese colleague about the meaning of some kanji (the ones he knew from traditional Chinese) and could not really understand why he often had problems telling me exactly what they meant.

Now I think that this was because many of them only ever occur as part of vocab and can mean quite a lot of different things.

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What i meant by translate was that i can take a guess at the content of the sentence and look it up.

行 it’s a good example as it is a level 5 kanji of which i still have 行き and 行う in apprentice/guru. So i’ve learnt that the general meaning is to go/going but those words have very specific meanings and i end up confusing them.

How do i associate a word with it’s kanji if don’t know them though? I would learn the vocab but would not retain the kanji. Or i’m missing something?

Potentially silly example but bear with me here.

Say you’re learning numbers via their digits. I think you’d agree with me that 0 means zero. But pretend it’s new and you need to associate 0 with the meaning and sound of “zero”

Where the metaphor falls apart is there are only 10 digits, but let’s pretend there’s thousands and you want to learn all the digits before you start learning numbers. And let’s assume you’re one of the people who don’t give up.

So you’ve learnt everything and now you’re ready to learn numbers. 0 to 9 probably go smoothly, but then you get to 10.

This isn’t pronounced “one-zero” but as “ten,” and while you can learn the meaning as “one in the tens place and zero in the units place,” more simply it’s just ten. But it’s okay, that’s just one exception. Except it isn’t. 20, 50, 90, 100, 208, 7000000? None of those are pronounced like 0. 0 is only zero on its own.

So even though you know the individual digits (assuming you haven’t forgotten any of the thousands you learnt), you only know a fraction of the numbers you want to learn.

Does that make any sense?

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Yes: the WK vocabulary is targeted to reinforce the WK Kanji learning, and learning the related vocabulary soon after being introduced to the Kanji, is the ideal time.
As described by others, Kanji are not ‘stand-alone’.

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I would also argue that learning vocabulary is backwards compatible with learning kanji and cross-compatible with learning other vocabulary.

As a few folks have mentioned, there are plenty of kanji that have many different translations in English (not to mention ones that simple don’t directly translate). For those kanji, I often find that learning them in a variety of different vocabulary words is what really teaches me what the kanji “means”. There may not be one direct English translation that encompasses it, but knowing half a dozen words that use it mean I still understand its “meaning”.

This is what I mean by “backwards compatible”: learning the vocabulary actually teaches me the kanji better than wanikani’s explanation could without context. It’s especially helpful for kanji that wanikani might just teach you as a suffix, like 的, or kanji like 不, which they teach as “not” but that you can see in 不眠症 (insomnia), 不同意 (disagree), 不正 (injustice), and about a thousand other words.

And by “sideways compatible”, I mean that learning a kanji in one vocabulary word can help you to learn other vocabulary words more quickly. I’ve had numerous conversations with co-workers where I ask them a question and the explanation will include something like this:

[After asking a coworker the word for “dehydration”]
Coworker: 脱水症状 (だっすいしょうじょう)
Me: Oh, wait, すい like 水? (Verbally, “sui like mizu?”) And 熱中症の「しょう」?
Coworker: そうだ, and だっ from 脱する-
The English/Japanese swapping is just how our conversations tend to happen, with varying levels of English vs Japanese depending on my coworkers’ English skills and my Japanese vocabulary for a given topic

And this helps my brain remember it! Because I know 水 as water, but also 水族館(すいぞくかん)and 青水(あおみず)and a bunch of other words, just like I know that ‘hydro’ relates to water in English.

Same for 症, which I knew from 熱中症 and that I’m now learning in 不眠症, and so on and so forth. I’m not just memorizing it as “symptom”, the way wanikani teaches it, but with all the connotations of knowing it in different vocabulary words.

For me, at least, making this sort of web of connections in my brain helps me to remember new vocabulary, whether I’m learning it from a written form or talking about it aloud. And I’ve heard coworkers and students use this sort of structure (「kanji」from 「vocabulary」) to talk about the kanji that make up their names, so I think it feels like a pretty natural/intuitive way of connecting different meanings.

Obviously, it’s up to you what way of learning will work best: but personally, I don’t see any real benefit to skipping vocabulary, but I can see a lot of potential setbacks.

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This may sometimes be a valid way of learning. I’m sure you knew the word “emoji” way before you learned that it’s written 絵文字. And once you learned that, 絵, 文 and 字 easily fall into place. There are some other Japanese words that I’ve learned as part of beginner grammar studies before I knew their kanji: 面白い、勉強、頭がいい to name a few. Nothing wrong with doing it this way…

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Have you actually tried this? This sounds feasible in theory, but once you try reading, especially fiction such as manga, you realise that without grammar and vocabulary you understand nothing even if you know all the kanji.

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That’s right, when you read with furigana you learn a bunch of vocab (the word meaning and how it sounds and not necessarily the kanji, although the really common ones sink in.

Then since you know a lot of words, you can avoid exactly this situation:

You’ll see 行き so often it will become plainly obvious. and 行う not as much, so you’ll remember it as the weird one. And seeing 行う as just a flashcard is abstract, you really need some context to get that one. So wk sentences might help, but you will come across it if you read and it will make a lot more sense!

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If i take a look at a page where i know the kanji i can get what they are talking about, to understand properly every sentence yes you need grammar but the vocabulary can be looked up.

If i start reading with furigana meanwhile, assuming i look up the kanji i do not know, there is not much difference between learning wanikani’s vocab now or later.

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I’m not sure I understand what you mean, perhaps we’re looking at it totally differently.

Japanese takes so long to learn anyway, and it seems like you quite want to blaze through WK kanji. So, just try your strategy and see how it goes. And then when you try reading and it works out and is fun, then great! And if not, then come back to this thread and maybe try out a different strategy. There are so many different ways to learn. I just wanted to make you aware of some potential pitfalls in your plans since you asked! Above all, have fun and keep going.

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For another digit example, let’s say you only learned 1 as “one”. Seems simple and clear, right?

And then you try and read and find:

1st (first, not onest)
11 (eleven not oneone)
18 (eighteen not oneeight)

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