Daisoujou's Study Log - šŸ¤·

Two of my main goals, as far as Japanese-only things are concerned, are the two Japan-only Yakuza games set in fedual Japan - Kenzan, and Ishin. I think there are some translated cutscene compilations maybe or something like that, but I mainly just want to be able to play and experience these games since I really enjoy the Yakuza series and the concept of ā€œfedual Japanese variations of the series charactersā€ sounds interesting to me

Iā€™ll try to give that article a read after Iā€™m done with my coursework on Friday - sounds like an interesting genre that Iā€™d like to take a look at

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Excellent choices! Iā€™m a big Yakuza fan, too. Iā€™ve played almost all of them, only skipped Dead Souls that I can recall. Those are ones Iā€™d definitely like to play as well. Honestly, as much as Lost Judgment is gnawing at me, it just feels so much like a series completely wrapped in Japanese culture, that now itā€™s hard to bring myself to play it in English. Feels like playing Lost Judgment itself has become a big longer term goal of mine to feel like Iā€™ve kind of ā€œmade it.ā€ I know thatā€™s pretty far off, though.

I gotta ask, did you like 7/Like a Dragon? I was really excited, and I think Ichiban is a great character, but I feel kind of alone in being disappointed by it. The thing is, I actually really like turn based combat, but I thought it got mindless way too quickly in that game. Just wasnā€™t much of a combat system I enjoyed, so Iā€™m hoping they can work on that more for the next game, introduce a little more challenge and not make so many parts feel kind of redundant. The story dissonance got to me a little too ā€“ yeah thereā€™s always SOME degree of that in Yakuza, but I felt more weirdly conflicted than ever when, right after the cutscenes respecting and humanizing the poor, Iā€™d walk down the street and beat up ā€œHungry Hungry Homelessā€ and the like. Nonetheless, the studio has earned a lot of goodwill from me, so Iā€™m just hoping that, being a whole new genre, itā€™ll get iterated and improved heavily on, like back when they started with the early beat-em up games.

Hope you enjoy the article! Unfortunately the visual novel genre representatives tend to be both huge time investments and include a lot of very dark questionable material that Iā€™m uncomfortable recommending to almost anyone, but it is a genre that has spread out through multiple mediums. The talk there about movies is very good; Iā€™d highly recommend trying one of those and seeing what you think of its vibe. August in the Water is kinda challenging, but one of my favorite movies ever.

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I actually havenā€™t reached 7 yet, still need to get through 6 first haha - planning on doing that over Christmas. And I get what you mean, it feels weird doing anything in Japanese with English subs now, but I donā€™t want to put off 6 and 7 for that long haha. Hopefully I enjoy it since I do love turn based stuff, but I guess Iā€™ll see

Visual novels are something Iā€™ve never really managed to get into, but I do want to try some stuff like Steins;Gate. Iā€™m not really interested in the more ahem adult parts of visual novels so thatā€™s kind of put me off trying many

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Oh, yeah, hope you like them! 6 has some rough edges (first Dragon engine game feelsā€¦ehh) but I adored the new setting and stuff. Nice comfy game.

Steins;Gate has been on my list forever, and itā€™s something I started, but because VNs are so long and tend to start slow, I drifted away before it ā€œgets goodā€ I think, heh. Iā€™m with you about the adult content, but it feels like there are certain kinds of experiences I canā€™t get outside VNs, so I mostly just tolerate that aspect.

That said! If youā€™re just looking into the genre from the outside in general, I highly, highly recommend The House in Fata Morgana! Itā€™s one of the best Iā€™ve ever read, has no sexual content, and has a general artstyle and story that both feel super atypical for VNs or ā€œanime-styleā€ things as a whole. Itā€™s hard to talk about, but itā€™s a sort of tragedyā€¦ and just, really good. And ā€œonlyā€ something like 25 hours I believe (in a medium where things like to stretch to 50 or 100+).

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Mine is an especially weird one, haha! I mean, thereā€™s quite a lot of Japanese-only wrestling stuff that I desperately want to be able to read/watch, but the one thing Iā€™d love to be able to fully experience is DDT Pro-Wrestlingā€™s Hiragana Muscle (ć²ć‚‰ćŒćŖć¾ć£ć™ć‚‹) shows. Iā€™ve been very fortunate to be able to watch them and be able to follow along with the plot through live translation twitter feeds, but DDTā€™s translator is leaving the promotion at the end of the year, and itā€™s unclear if his replacement will put in the same level and degree of work that he did (personally, I canā€™t imagine live translating entire 2.5+ hour shows on twitter, but Mr. Haku often did it multiple times a week).

Hiragana Muscle is a weird thing because itā€™s sort of a pro wrestling show combined with a musical. They do several of them a year, and theyā€™re generally performed in a ring in Korakuen Hall, which is a very famous wrestling venue. Theyā€™re choreographed performances where the wrestlers portray characters and sing and dance and do other types of performances, including wrestling, though itā€™s a little different from usual because kayfabe doesnā€™t really exist (unlike regular pro wrestling, theyā€™re very upfront about the fact that this is a performance by actors). The plots parody wrestling tropes and reference wrestling stuff from all over the world.

Whatā€™s amazing to me about it is that the shows are often performed just once or maybe twice, and thatā€™s it (theyā€™re streamed live and can be later watched as a VOD). Each new show is a continuation of the plot in the last one, and even though theyā€™re pretty silly, I think every single one that Iā€™ve watched has ended in at least some of the people involved crying real tears, because they touch on real themes like people finding ways to live out their dreams through wrestling, and the struggles of having to adapt to the pandemic as performers in a medium where a live crowd is essential.

Iā€™m a fan of musicals generally, but Iā€™ve never seen anything else like Hiragana Muscle before. It combines the most fun aspects of musicals with some of the most fun aspects of pro wrestling, and also manages to occupy that weird in-between space where itā€™s obviously a performance, yet some parts of it are also real, because ultimately, itā€™s a story thatā€™s just so full of love for the weird medium of wrestling, and that love shines through in everything that they do.

There are so few clips of Hiragana Muscle out there, haha, so itā€™s hard to really convey whatā€™s so fun about it, but hereā€™s a clip from the beginning of Hiragana Muscle 3 that introduces the cast of protagonists, and hereā€™s a clip from the beginning of 5 that I thought was really clever.

Even with some live translation, thereā€™s a massive amount that I have to miss (Mr. Haku never translated the song lyrics, for example). Without live translation, itā€™s nearly impossible to follow along (and forget about ever getting subtitles of any sort, Japanese or English). So my ultimate stretch goal with Japanese, and the point where Iā€™ll consider myself fluent, is if I ever reach a point where I can watch these shows and understand them on my own.

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Short general update: I woke up feeling like someone spent the night beating every part of my body with bats, but other than the body aches, Iā€™m doing pretty ok! At least 80-90% there mentally and none of the covid recurrence stuff I was afraid of has resurfaced, just yet. Feeling overall good about that.


Anyway, I love that answer! I knew it had to be some sort of wrestling thing for you, certainly, but I had no idea a wrestling musical existed. Iā€™m totally on board with that. I mean, stage musicals have never quite caught my interest, but as someone really into movies, I do like a lot of movie musicals. Itā€™s just fun when stuff is willing to break the facades of ā€œrealismā€ and go out into full emotional outpourings. And with an open minded audience, I feel like I kind of see the crossover appeal. Iā€™m totally an outsider looking in with wrestling, yet thereā€™s a certain theatrical nature to it I thinkā€¦ maybe a heightened reality or something, if that makes sense? I have a concept in my head, though Iā€™m struggling to quite get it out into the right words.

Those clips looked like good fun! I really appreciate the little freeze frames in the second, haha. I also do think itā€™s genuinely fantastic to take something thatā€™sā€¦ I dunno, a little silly? And also certainly not usually classified as particularly ā€œhigh artā€ (I donā€™t mean either of those in a derogatory way one bit) and making really heartfelt, meaningful works out of them.

Who knows if Iā€™ll ever get around to watching it for real myself (though I am at least a bit interested now), but this was pretty cool to even just learn that it exists, so Iā€™m glad I asked this! Thanks for taking the time to tell me about it, and good luck getting there where you can follow it sans translation!

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I think you understand pro wrestling better than you think, haha! Pro wrestling is sort of a cross between theater and sport, though unlike regular theater, itā€™s very dedicated to keeping up the illusion that itā€™s ā€œrealā€ (pro wrestling started as a carnival act, and at some point, they discovered that the fights became more compelling if they scripted the results, but they didnā€™t want this information getting out, so for a huge chunk of wrestling history, they were pretty dedicated to hiding the truth).

The word kayfabe refers to wrestling reality, and breaking kayfabe means revealing that something in the wrestling reality doesnā€™t match up to actual reality. Kayfabe is more protected in Japan and Mexico than it is in the US (in Japan and Mexico, the big wrestling publications never allude to the fact that itā€™s scripted).

That said, DDT in particular often plays with kayfabe in a way that receives criticism from many fans and people in the industry, because theyā€™ll do things like have a wrestler wrestle a blow up doll. Many people reject this because they think it ruins their ability to suspend their disbelief, therefore ruining the fun of pro wrestling for them. I am not one of those people, haha, because I think itā€™s so cool that pro wrestling can basically be anything, and the immense creativity of it is part of the appeal to me.

Even DDT, though, respects kayfabe more than people think. In Hiragana Muscle, the only wrestlers involved in the show are people whose normal wrestling characters would be the type of people who would be willing to do a show like this. The heels (villains) in the musical are portrayed by faces (heroes) in ā€œreal lifeā€.

I think this hits on part of the core appeal of pro wrestling, honestly! Which is that as a medium, it is often kind of silly and opaque to outsiders, but at the same time, at the core of it is a very deep sincerity that you often donā€™t get in other mediums. I love that Hiragana Muscle, for example, doesnā€™t even try to appeal to a broader audience (though the showā€™s failure to do so was a major plot point in the last one, haha!). Itā€™s just a group of people doing something they love and feel passionate about in front of a dedicated audience that also loves and feels passionate about that same thing.

Thanks for humoring me with this conversation! It was a really fun question to answer!

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There is unfortunately one more pandemic related update

So, about those boostersā€¦ yeah, fiancĆ©e and I are still not really feeling quite normal. Seems like people who had/have long covid, while they sometimes see improvement from vaccines (and I did see the last of it go away a while after my last shot so itā€™s hard to say if it did or didnā€™t ultimately help), itā€™s also not too uncommon to have a sort of resurgence with shots. Itā€™s less bad than before, thankfully, and it hasnā€™t impeded me TOO much because it comes and goes through the hours of the day, just like it did back thenā€¦ but sometimes I just have feel malaise for some hours, every day I feel like I have a fever for part of it, Iā€™m working on building back endurance to do normal things like stand for a while, etc. No fun! Today has been kind of worse and Iā€™ve wasted a lot of hours not doing much, which is frustrating.

That said, when I can manage, on I go. Iā€™ve finally finished the second case in Ace Attorney! From this game alone I believe Iā€™ve mined over 300 words already (doing a few too many per day in my voraciousness, to be honest). I havenā€™t had many roadblocks learning this way, and itā€™s been the best of my Japanese learning yet. I love seeing how Redd White, who in the localization was made to use words like ā€œSplendiferousā€ and ā€œGiantesque,ā€ in the original, he just peppered basic English words throughout his speech (written phonetically in katakana and not always used well), and would not shut up about how he spent time America. Itā€™s a totally different character trait, in one sense.

I also came across this absolute nightmare of onomatopoeia, haha. I think itā€™s actually helping me remember those words.

On the other fronts? Well, Wanikani is still happening. Nothing too exciting to say there. Iā€™m still excited to learn more kanji but the more my reading comfort creeps upwards, the more I feel the pull to get to doing that, which is great honestly. WK kanji stick with me well, so thus far I think Iā€™ll stick it out all the way to 60, but who knows what the future holds.

I mentioned it elsewhere, but I also picked up Paper Mario! There are some bits I have to give up on, but Iā€™m treating it as a nice extensive reading break, where I just do my best to understand and then move on, no dictionaries. And I understand quite a bit overall, but at the same time, there is clearly so much a child is expected to know that Iā€™m nowhere near still, heh.

ā€¦like spoken Japanese! Here and there Iā€™m watching Midnight Diner and K-On to practice my listening, but listening hasnā€™t become easy enough to not get a little disheartening and frustrating, so I do it in small bits compared to reading. I know listening is its own skill that has to be practiced, in order to even properly hear the words I do ā€œknow,ā€ but at the same time, since reading will both teach me new words easier and get the words I know more deeply ingrained and natural through repetition, part of me wonders if the key to better listening is just to keep my head in the books for a little longer before gradually shifting more attention to that skill specifically. Hard to say.

Lastly, since we were both not feeling super well, my fiancĆ©e and I exchanged a single early Christmas gift, and she was very nice to get me Azumanga Daioh, since I loved Yotsubato so much! It turns out that has no furigana, which is inconvenient since itā€™s physical as well, but I dragged myself through a chapter looking up kanji by radicals because I REALLY want to read it. Luckily the actual writing has been basic and easy so far; the unfamiliar kanji are all that cause me issues.

Thatā€™s all Iā€™ve got I think! Hoping I find a little more energy to read tonight, cause today has been the least Iā€™ve done in a while. I want to, just not quite mentally there. These days happen and we get through them <3.

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We never did start up an Azumanga Daioh club offshoot from the Yotsuba club, although it did come. The lack of furigana kept me from expressing interest in reading it as a club.

Youā€™ll be passing me by on WaniKani soon!

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I imagine itā€™s in a weird spot in terms of club material, where the lack of furigana is offputting for new readers, but the writing seems a little too simple for someone comfortable with all of these kanji, unless theyā€™ve been really putting off grammar. Thatā€™s based on chapter 1 only, though; I might eat my words later! Still a shame for me, cause a vocab sheet would ease so much effort on figuring out words.

Full speed ahead! Youā€™re still gonna remain 先ē”Ÿ in my mind no matter what that number says, haha.

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Iā€™m sorry youā€™ve also been having a rough time. I thought Iā€™d chime in with some solidarity, because itā€™s been a tough month for me, too. But hey, weā€™re both still going! Honestly, youā€™re still doing a pretty incredible amount of studying, all things considered!

And Azumanga Daioh is a lot of fun! I watched the anime a long time ago back in high school, haha! Itā€™s how I learned about the Osaka dialect. They made an interesting choice in the English dub to give the character a southern accent to try to convey to English speakers how her speech might sound to the other characters. It has been over a decade since I watched it, but I still remember that.

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The sentiment is very much appreciated. I dunno what it is tonight, but Iā€™ve been getting pretty wrecked by this. Would love for this headache to go away sometime. Hope you pull through whateverā€™s going on with you and it clears up relatively soon, too. Iā€™ve found your persistence and dedication to generally give off a nice energy, really appreciate seeing you around.

Iā€™ll probably give the anime a watch after the manga! I believe a character coming up later in Ace Attorney (Lotta Hart, in the English version) was also from Osaka and given a Southern US accent in the localization! To my knowledge, my only exposure to dialects in my studying so far is Kansai, so I hope that isnā€™t TOO challenging right now. I know nothing about the features of that dialect, yet.

Edit: Right, while there might be a few specifics too, Osaka is in Kansaiā€¦ letā€™s blame my current mental state :sweat_smile:

Since I canā€™t help a small tangent when Ace Attorney localization comes up ā€“ overall the series does great, with all the jokes and cultural references they have to manage, but one very amusing thing is that game 1 committed to changing the setting from Japan to California (and along with it, the ramen into hamburgers and whatnot), which worked out fine in that game, but then each subsequent game had more and more instances where the localizers had to somehow write around very traditional rural Japanese villages and stuff being in California, haha.

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How can I forward this link to the location staff?

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Oh yeah, Iā€™ve actually heard about that!

Honestly, the moment I saw a link in relation to this topic, I thought it would be this.

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Thank you for your kind words! I think you give off a nice energy, too! Iā€™m impressed by your dedication and curiosity, and I always enjoy reading updates to your log!

I actually have never played an Ace Attorney game, though Iā€™m familiar with bits and pieces! Thatā€™s hilarious about the setting, haha! It kind of reminds me of the Supernatural anime, which I did not attempt to watch myself, but my former roommate hatewatched it in its entirety. Except there, itā€™s sort of the opposite problem, where the entire show is very much set in America, and yet the art makes it look Very Japanese, ahaha! But, well, I guess the original show had the problem of looking too much like Vancouver a lot of the time, so if Canada can be America, why not Japan, too?

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Itā€™s about year-end wrap up time, wow! I canā€™t say I exactly had concrete goals for this year because I only started in June and it was hard to really conceptualize of how far Iā€™d be able to get in Japanese in that time. I wonā€™t deny looking at some of those ā€œN1 in a year and a halfā€ or whatnot success stories and being kind of hopeful, while recognizing those are totally incredible outliers. Itā€™s not like I dislike the process and want the learning to be ā€œoverā€ (it wonā€™t be), I just have a strong urge to be able to do the things Iā€™m not able to. That said, going through Ace Attorney now has somehow felt like the first time itā€™s really ā€œreal,ā€ that even though I donā€™t know most of what I need to for the language, I can do it. I recall short periods of worrying I wasnā€™t making progress even just a few months ago, and now here I am, so Iā€™ve somehow also underestimated my own ability.

I went through all of Genki 1 and 2 in a few, overly rushed months, haha! Iā€™ve got an Anki deck that at this point is only giving me like ~10 reviews per day of all the Genki vocab, and another with 1400+ words Iā€™ve mined myself. I posted this in the recent ā€œ2021 Reading ResumĆ©ā€ thread, but Iā€™ll go ahead and paste this list of everything Iā€™ve finished reading here too:

  • The first 3 levels of Tadoku graded readers
  • The first 2 volumes of When Will Ayumu Make His Move? (book club <3)
  • All 15 volumes of Yostubato
  • A total of 377 articles on Satori Reader (this includes series like Sakura and Suzuki where they are quite short at times)
  • The first 2 volumes of Neko Ramen
  • The first 3 volumes of Ao Haru Ride
  • The first 2 volumes of ćƒ¤ćƒ³ć‚­ćƒ¼ć‚·ćƒ§ć‚æćØć‚Ŗć‚æć‚Æ恊恭恈恕悓

Thatā€™s a list I can be really happy with! Listening remains harderā€¦ I canā€™t track that as easily, though Iā€™ve watched season 1 of Midnight Diner, season 1 of K-On, and all of Shirokuma Cafe, a couple Ghibli movies, along with countless untracked hours of streams, random Youtube videos, and many, many hours of Nihongo con Teppei and its offshoots. Thatā€™s with varying degrees of success. Learner podcasts are relatively easy but I havenā€™t figured out how to transition well to ā€œrealā€ Japanese and not miss most of it, yet.

So how about next year? I donā€™t really like to set concrete progress goals; I donā€™t think I need them to be motivated and theyā€™ll just introduce the potential of ā€œfailure.ā€ All I want is to hopefully continue keeping up with my reviews every single day, as I have up to this point, and to make my best effort to devote spare hours I find to forward progress. If Iā€™m better than I am now, mission accomplished.

Some soft, general focuses:

  • More reading, especially visual novels now that that is starting to feel so much more doable. At least dabble in novels or short stories, which I havenā€™t touched to this point, and see how I can manage.

  • Improve my listening to get more out of real native materials ā€“ this is going to take some toying around to see what is necessary. Simply more time thrown at it? Will more comfort with words known (and better known) from the aforementioned reading help it sort itself out? Do I need to start taking pieces of audio and actually pausing and breaking them down and practicing more explicitly, the way I do reading? Weā€™ll see!

  • General progress on Wanikani and mining words just feels like an automatic part of the process to me now, so as long as I keep going, those will be good. I can theoretically finish WK within the next year, depending in part on if I want the ā€œfast levelsā€ to be fast. Iā€™ll have to feel that out when the time comes; Iā€™ve been moving very quickly and mostly comfortable with it, but I donā€™t want WK to end up stealing TOO much time from everything else.

  • Perhaps Iā€™ll start dipping my toes into monolingual dictionaries, as well. Iā€™m undecided on how important I think that is and when I care to work on it. Uncharted territory for me, there.


I hope youā€™ve all had a great year and I canā€™t wait to see you in the next one, too. Iā€™ll probably be back to this topic before the year is finished, anyway. Iā€™ve got a lot of little observations and thoughts on Ace Attorney rolling in my head, which Iā€™m holding back on to split to another day.

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Wow, youā€™ve been incredibly productive and have made so much progress! Congratulations!

Iā€™m not going to lie, your thread feels a bit like one of those ā€œN1 in a year and a halfā€ threads to me in terms of how quickly youā€™ve out-paced me, haha, but I feel like as long as weā€™re all having fun, weā€™re doing this at the right pace for us.

Iā€™m glad youā€™ve stuck it out, and itā€™s been a joy following your journey!

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Thank you so much for the support! Iā€™m extremely lucky to have the amount of time that I do to devote to this, and Iā€™ve just found that almost always, it remains the thing I want to do. Thereā€™s no real desire to stop after Iā€™ve put in my daily minimum. But yeah, itā€™s not a race, zero disrespect to anyone with either less time for it or just without the energy to go as crazy with it as I have. In time, if nothing else, Iā€™m definitely one of those outliers.

Thereā€™s a part of me when I posted this that almost wanted to be like ā€œIf you arenā€™t doing this sort of ridiculous amount of stuff this quickly then that makes sense and is totally okā€ but at the same time it feels likeā€¦ implied bragging about how much Iā€™ve done? Which I also donā€™t want to give the impression Iā€™m doing. Itā€™s not like Iā€™m special when it comes to learning, just in a fortunate position to, quite honestly, overdo it.

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This is something Iā€™m wanting to get done too I think. I donā€™t think youā€™ve mentioned it so Iā€™m going to suggest using subtitles (in JP of course). It might feel like cheating, but theyā€™re so useful for helping the brain figure out what was just heard (and tbh I often use subtitles in English when Iā€™m playing games in English even because it can be useful to double check what I heard sometimes). They definitely help, though one of my major issues is that I can struggle to follow them if thereā€™s one or two words I donā€™t recognise since my eyes get caught on the unknown and then I canā€™t read the whole line quickly enough. The other issue I face with subtitles is that they can be an absolute pain to get synced (Iā€™ve seen a bunch of automated solutions but none of them seem to work properly for me so Iā€™ve done it all manually so far which is so time consuming). Other minor pains are when subtitles are hardsubbed into youtube videos which stops me from being able to use a popup dictionary (always nice when the subs are provided through the youtube caption system as well/instead)

Pausing after a snippet of audio and giving myself a second to parse what I just heard has definitely helped too - this combines with the subtitles to make parsing the audio a lot easier than doing it without

Still, I need to practice more myself - finding good practice material for myself has been a little hard I think. I donā€™t really have too much interest in slice of life anime in the grand scheme of things. Slice of life manga have been nice at least and Iā€™ve enjoyed some more than I expected, but manga is much less of a time commitment than anime

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I second this. This has been a big part of what Iā€™ve been doing to get up to snuff with listening practice; the added side-benefit is I can tell that my reading speed has picked up as well as a result. While I can definitely relate to the snags that come from hitting something thatā€™s unknown, thatā€™s when I pause, try to guess from context, then look up to confirm, so itā€™s not been too bad so far. Iā€™ve made it through one season of an anime (Bokuben), and I have started slowly working through Toradora this past week or so. I do like slice of life anime (with plot progression, anyway), so Iā€™ve no shortage of listening material, thankfully.

I can already tell that even without subtitles, Iā€™m picking up more of what the streamers I watch say after having started with doing this, so while it certainly feels like cheating, it does make a big difference! Itā€™s gotten much easier to just pause something and look up even new words based on their sounds, and actually find the correct word, which is something that I struggled with a lot before trying to watch anime with JP subtitles.

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