Yeah for sure. It definitely comes down to context. To answer this question then I suppose you first need to agree on what is meant by “knowing Japanese”.
My response to that would be I’m never going to be comfortable saying I know Japanese to a Japanese person.
But maybe the answer is when you’re able to interpret for a non Japanese friend, you should be comfortable saying you know Japanese.
Unrelated to your response
in regards to JLPT levels and knowing Japanese
In regards to relating the JLPT levels to whether you know or don’t know Japanese, there is a guy I know studying for N1 having passed the N2 already. His speaking skills are absolute trash. If I passed the N1 with his speaking level, I would be able to interpret what the Japanese person said really well for my friend, but the Japanese person would have no chance understanding my response to them.
When I was younger I used to tell people all the time that I ‘know’ Japanese (I took Japanese in high school and studied it for two years in college) but as I got older and delved deeper into studying the language, I realized just how much I don’t yet know about the language and I feel embarrassed that I ever claimed that I did. I know just enough to watch an episode of Terrace House without any subtitles, though! But if anyone ever asked me to communicate in straight Japanese, I wouldn’t be able to say anything but simple sentences.
No, I’m just saying that the N1 isn’t that much in the grand scheme of things. Obviously, getting max score on the N1 might mean something, but scraping by like I did isn’t anywhere close to the “I know Japanese” level.
“Speaking ability” is also highly dependent on the situation, I’ve found.
One of my schools is changing and I had to say something at the farewell party. With no advance prep, I gave a 3 minute or so long speech about how much the school and teachers mean to me, and how thankful I am for having been a teacher there, etc. It went really well.
Then today, a teacher asked me to write an email for them in English, because the company they’re communicating with doesn’t use Japanese. I couldn’t explain my English version well at all, because I didn’t know the specific terms for what we were discussing in Japanese. I sounded like an idiot, and this was in the lower-pressure, private situation.
At the point that when I proudly exclaim “I know Japanese” and someone starts a conversation to test me and I can get along without problems … before I would only embarrass myself.
So, yeah, I guess my bar is pretty low compared to others. But to be on the same level as a native is very, very difficult. English is my second language that I learned in school and I’ve been living in an English speaking country for decades and I am still not at a native level. I am fluent, oh yes, and I speak without thinking, but I still make mistake, don’t know some of the words, make grammar errors … things I’d not do in my native language. So, I’ wouldn’t be too hard on myself and wait until I am on such a high level before I say “I know Japanese” …
Yeah this seems to be the consensus among learners who have actually passed it. It’s a very impressive achievement for sure, but I think comparing it to “being like a Japanese person” is way too much. In addition, the JLPT doesn’t test speaking ability.
And to answer the question, this has been my experience as well, so its hard to answer. I would feel comfortable saying it in general when I reach a point where I can use japanese to fully express my thought and fully understand other peoples’ thoughts. This doesn’t mean never coming across unknown words so long as I am able to ask what the word means (in japanese) and fully understand their explanation (also in japanese). Thats just my current personal definition for it, but I wouldn’t be surprised if I still wouldn’t say I know japanese when I get to that point.
… before I would only embarrass myself.