wanikani is slow only for people who can dedicate 4+ hours a day to Japanese. That way you are better off using Anki or something. Other than that IMO even at a max speed you already can reach a very fast result. in a year+ with additional vocab srs like torii you can cover all 2000 kanjis and 10k words for n1 level.
plus people forget that almost all your efforts in language learning go into the vocabulary. What’s the point of learning 2000 abstract kanji meaning if you know 0 words? meanwhile even with just wanikani your vocabulary going to be the size of n2+ level. Obviously, ideally, you should supplement it because there are tons of common words that are not taught in wanikani.
Wow, I didn’t expect this many replies to be honest. Thank you guys for giving your thoughts!
I think many here are right that I shouldn’t try to take more than I would be able to handle on a busy day.
I think if I feel inpatient, I should use that time to immerse myself more with videos, reading, drama etc. But also it’s true that Wanikani doesn’t offer all of the basic vocab needed, just the ones with kanji lol, which is probably the reason I’m actually better with words that do have them.
So for that I could do some vocab deck in Anki or whatever, but I think mining words from immersion should do a great job too to fill the caps, either by coming across with a certain words many many times while my reading and listening gets better (and automatically SRSing) or actually picking it up and making an Anki card for it, but there is a risk that it can come overwhelming…
I’m super happy that the Wanikani’s max speed is now much much easier for me, and I hate seeing some of those kanji being grey in every level for a while, but I guess it doesn’t mean that I should do it any faster even if I could, as it might bite me in the *** later on.
Thank you all giving me advices, I hope I got this somewhat right now
Yeah, I do the same thing. But somehow it feels like “Cheating”. Silly, I know. I also think about 100 in a row is pretty nice. I never liked doing a “set” amount of reviews. Not having an empty review queue really irks me for some reason. Guess I’m just silly like that. With that said, since I stopped working (Recently) the workload has lessened and it’s easier to keep up when you can drop in during the day and shave of a few reviews here and there.
I know, the problem is I haven’t had the luxury of doing that until just recently. (Full time job, full time studies, martial arts etc etc etc.) But as you say It’s certainly started to chill since I started being able to control when I do reviews.
I just don’t like seeing anything but zero in my review queue, what can I say… Guess I had the nightly bombardment coming.
I had a look at the main website and I would say it definitely has its appeal, but knowing just the kanji meanings doesn’t sound like actually being able to read. Especially since a text won’t contain only kanji, but also kana and well, sentences
I think one would be better off using the core 2.3k deck at that point.
Check @Daisoujou 's comment - it’s learning 2k kanji in 3 months only for visual recognition. The system doesn’t teach you how to read them.
That’s definitely true. I noticed that once other commitments popped up, going full speed was no longer possible .
Out of curiosity, is it from a cross-check between WaniKani’s vocab and inofficial JLPT lists? I get the feeling that even though WaniKani does teach a lot of common words, I wouldn’t say it’s even close to N2 level. It’s maybe enough to read Tobira without issues, but any actual book and likely exams are going to be a struggle.
wanikani teaches you like 4500 most common words and around 1500+ are not that common. And JLPT 2 test usually includes around 5-6k words. I would say if you rely only on wanikani vocab then it’s definitely not nuff. But If you know at least 1000+ only kana words I think you should easily pass the vocab test at JLPT 2.
personally, for me the best app that supplements wanikani vocab is torii.srs. With excluded wanikani vocabulary it has around 5700 additional words. Plus they are sorted by wanikani kanji levels so it kinda helps you reinforce onyomi and kunyomi readings.
I see… yeah, that makes sense. Thank you for the explanation!
So far I’ve been using Anki for vocab, because I have a very basic, but convenient setup for PC and mobile, but I will have a look at Torii, since a lot people recommend.
Okay, no, that’s a deal breaker for me, sadly. One of the reasons I switched from WaniKani to Anki was to avoid having to input answers, because on the go that’s not very convenient and one is likely to pick a synonym that’s not listed and get marked wrong . When I started with Anki I specifically added an input field for answers, but I don’t think that actually helps with memorization. I guess that may differ from person to person, though.
Instead of physically inputting the answer, I voice it in Japanese and that helps me a lot with remembering the meaning or feeling behind a word, because I heavily rely on echoic memory.
ah I see. well, maybe you are right because I remember when iv read some study on the effectiveness of en/jpn and jpn/eng review mode turned out the results of people who were using that mode were just slightly better compared to people who were just learning words through jpn/eng mode. Meanwhile, you spend like 2x+ time. Maybe it’s the same with input where you spend tons of extra time but an actual benefit for long-term memory is not that high.
But I still love this program so I’m probably going to continue to use it- I usually just turn on some tv-series while doing my reviews)
Am I satisfied with the learning speed? Nope.
Will I ever be? Probably not.
I am currently taking a long break from WK because it is not currently helping me realize my goals for using the language. I have decided to replace WK with Anki and actually start reading native material.
I agree here, the input field doesn’t add any value to my SRSing. I find that having multiple Anki decks with separate review piles make the experience less daunting, which makes me feel comfortable doing even more.
there are so many parts of learning Japanese, wk allows me to just show up and do my reviews and have leftover emotional/mental capacity to work on grammar, speaking, listening etc.
wk has already gotten my kanji to a point I can start consuming basic native content, so the rate at which the remaining ~35 levels come isn’t super important to me.
learning Japanese, at least for me, is going to be a long adventure (min: 5-6 years in my estimate), so the kanji taking 1y-2y instead of 3-6mo* is kind of inconsiquental
** i’m dubious of the efficacy of RTK long term retention wise
I agree. I’m at a level right now that kanji and reading really isn’t the issue anymore, it’s my listening comprehension. For the content that I consume (anime for the most part) I can read pretty much all the subtitles, though it takes time, so I have to pause constantly to get the plot. Any look up words from time to time with yumichan (yumichan + animelon is super effective, would recommend).
Really doesn’t matter how long the last 30 levels take me, i’m just really impatient.
I wouldn’t recommend RTK unless you try to speedrun japanese, in that case that would be helpful, since you encounter alot of words that enforce the kanji. However if you blast through RTK and take it slow, you’ll encounter alot of kanji that you can read down the line because you’ve forgotten them. But if you enforce them with alot of words early on, it’ll probably be effective.
I do believe that wanikani’s approach is burning the kanji into the brain better, since it’s slower and you get alot of words to work with. It’s also manageable to most people, even though I’m not really one of them.
I mean I’ve never used RTK, but I don’t think anything you can do in 3 months is gonna have the same retention as WK’s SRS. It’s one thing to be able to recognize the character and get a sense for the meaning and another thing entirely to have an innate sense for how that kanji works with the ones around it and remember the reading that goes with it. That sense is something I think WK teaches really well, although of course it mostly comes from reading practice.
You gotta remember they teach Japanese schoolkids 2k kanji in like 10 years, and that’s with them using what they’ve learned constantly in daily life. Genki 1 and 2, which most people in Japanese classes take 2 years to get through, only teaches 317 with really limited vocab to go with them. You’re already doing it much faster than usual methods. Learning 2k kanji is a huge undertaking no matter how you do it. But I don’t see any problem with mixing methods and being on multiple things at once. Do what works for you.
I think the intent was more or less demystifying kanji so they don’t seem like arbitrary scribbles so that learning vocab from a core xk deck or mining is a little easier. I would consider WK the next step up, where select vocab is associated with those kanji to provide a useful base for people learning to read.
For the 2k → skim some grammer → hardcore immerse yourself crowd I would argue WK is more of a detour on the learning path, but reduces the effort of new learners to organize basic kanji/vocab knowledge with some gamified elements attached. RTK caters more to people who can diligently manage their studies and is a good bit cheaper.
I’ve read a lot of anecdotes on r/learnjapanese along the lines of “I crammed RTK took a short break and forgot everything”. I don’t think it’s a problem with RTK specifically. The content body is very similar in principle between the two, but WK has a system/safeguard that will railroad honest people into decent study habits if they don’t have them already. For better and worse RTK just leaves its audience to do their own thing, but I think due to it’s popularity a lot of idiots jumped into RTK without a good plan and got burned for it.
RTK and WK are both excellent methods that work. And if you put in the time with either method, you will make progress.
But on the topic of speed… I mean that’s sort of an illusion based on the finish line of the method you use. 3 months, 3 years… It doesn’t matter if you burn 2000 items or 11000 items… If you never use those items ever again, you will forget them… and quickly at that.
So with that in mind, let’s change the optics a bit. What is our real goal here? Is it learning all the kanji OR is it being fluent at reading japanese?
Because the level 60 finish line, much like learning all 2000+ joyo kanji using any other method, is not a prerequisite to being fluent in reading japanese.
Now it does help, but remember that being fluent does not mean you will know all the kanji you come across. Even knowing all 2000+ joyo kanji will not prevent you from picking up a dictionary from time to time. Even japanese people have to look up kanji. The only thing that will make you fluent at reading japanese… is READING JAPANESE.
In conclusion, for all you people with the Level 60 or 2000+ joyo kanji by heart as a goal, good for you. Do not let me dissuade you from that. (I also have this goal.) But it is no substitute for the real goal that led us here in the first place… a lifetime of reading Japanese.
So if you haven’t started already, what are you waiting for?
Exactly this! I’ve never understood people who think Wanikani is slow because it takes a year to learn the kanji. A year. Imagine telling a Japanese person you learned 2000 kanji in one year. They might not even believe you.
Learning this much material in one year is incredibly fast and efficient, and there’s something wrong with internet culture if it’s making people feel like this is actually too slow.
Let’s get one fact straight: No one learns the joyo kanji in less than 9 months. No one.
When someone says they did RTK in 3 months, they mean they learned to associate a single English keyword with each kanji. That’s far, far from being able to read or understand these kanji in context. By the time the 3 month RTKer learns onyomi, kunyomi, multiple meanings, and vocabulary using those kanji, it will be at least as long as max speed Wanikani.
Kamesame uses the exact same vocab pool of wk, its just trying to teach you to read an english word and be able to recall a japanese translation (theres a specific name for it but I forgor)
Torii teaches vocab that isnt on wk, so for improving your vocab pool its objectively better, since its the only one of the two that teaches you new stuff lol
KameSame has a study from a list section I haven’t used yet.
It seems to have a 10k frequency list, as well as N5-N1 lists, and specific WK lists.
It seems to filter out stuff you already learned from the WK section or various other lists for the new study lessons.
Just curious if there are pros/cons for each program since I haven’t started down that path yet as kitsun, WK, and KS take up enough time as is… As well as grammar study during the weekends.
I also think about 100 in a row is pretty nice. I never liked doing a “set” amount of reviews. Not having an empty review queue really irks me for some reason. Guess I’m just silly like that. With that said, since I stopped working (Recently) the workload has lessened and it’s easier to keep up when you can drop in during the day and shave of a few reviews here and there. 
Guess I had the nightly bombardment coming.
. When I started with Anki I specifically added an input field for answers, but I don’t think that actually helps with memorization. I guess that may differ from person to person, though.