穴 radical story does not reflect composition e.g. "helmet"+"fins"


#1

This radical composed from “helmet” and “fins” , however story around this radical refers to volcano and treats volcano as “fins” , since I already know word 穴 as “ana” , I’m not worried about it but still it looks unusual when composition of radical isn’t reflected in story.


#2

What are you talking about exactly? The radical called volcano?


#3

There is no radical called volcano.

What the OP is saying is that if you look at 穴, you would expect a mnemonic that takes the two elements of it, “helmet” and “fins,” and makes a story from that. Because people at this stage already know helmet and fins.

But the story used in the mnemonic talks about “helmet” and “volcano.” Which, I mean, sure, that’s what it looks like, but people might have trouble remembering it later when they look and try to remember a story that involves helmets and fins and they draw a blank because that’s not what the story used.


#4

Ahhh sure I get it. And I agree, I just made up my own mnemonic with fins in them when I was there.


#5

The story use volcano because there was an radical called volcano


#6

Hahaa I didn’t know this. I guess in 2014 when you joined some radicals had different names, huh? And then they changed “volcano” to “fins” but forgot to change the mnemonics for the hole radical.


#7

@suhej this is probably one to email them about (hello@wanikani.com). It sounds like the ‘fins’ radical used to be called ‘volcano’, and this mnemonic was never updated to reflect that. They’re unlikely to hear about this via the forums, and they’re very nice if you get in touch!


#8

Originally there were two radicals, one called “volcano” and one called “fins”. “Volcano” was basically 八 written in a font which included the hat on top, while “fins” lacked the hat. Mnemonics tended to call it “volcano” when it appeared in the top half of the kanji, and “fins” when it appeared in the bottom half, but there were always exceptions.

Eventually Koichi realised they were literally the same radical, and merged “volcano” into “fins”.


#9

That used to confuse the hell out of me, especially since sometimes the top would not be visible due to the font used (different browsers, mobile apps) so I’d mess it up.


#10

There are more examples that they split the already-taught-as a radical into smaller parts, which really make learning the mnemonic stories harder. Not to mention some weak stories/bad mnemonics that wani should change. but I’m just a lazy bum and only being here to lament about everything instead of giving feedback. Well I pay money so I don’t care, lamenting is my rights :monkey:


#11

This is my personal conclusion and opinion, but the more levels I went through the less I actually read the stories. Today I basically never read the stories provided by wk, I just make up my own on the fly each time, I found this to be much more effective. I guess “a story that makes sense to me might not make it to you” since, imho, its effectiveness is highly linked to personal experience.


#12

Yes, I do this too. But I still keep the radical names (for the most part). And then it bothers me when I fail to burn a radical, until I remember that it literally doesn’t matter in the slightest what I call a radical or whether I remember its name as long as I know the kanji.


#13

As I progress in WK levels, I now do the same.
My feedback would be that the WK mechanics is great, but the stories would really need some polishing.

In the forum, I see some threads complaining that the custom bunshu names or significations are not the best. I would tend to agree. 卜is divination, 宀 is roof, 广 is a shelter. I am not sure calling 广 a mulet is helping the memorization process.


#14

Another reminder that the radicals and mnemonics are all being overhauled, so they are aware of what people think about them, but it’s been in progress for ages and there’s no ETA.

So, I mean, this is a discussion about something that might have already been changed, but is just awaiting going into effect.


#15

It would be nice if they could figure out a way to apply the changes to new users only, or make it opt-in for old users, so that those of us who learned radicals the “old” way don’t have to relearn them halfway through (or fail a whole bunch of burn reviews).


#16

I would hope in that case the old radical IDs would remain as synonyms


#17

They are likely, along with the “real” meanings (i.e. mother for 母 instead of drawer), to be included as invisible synonyms. This means you’ll get credit for answering with them, but they aren’t going to be taught or shown on the item page.