コンビニ人間: Week 6 Discussion

Oh you are totally right :woman_facepalming:
Forget what I said, please…

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I’m really, really enjoying this book. :blush:

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At the end of page 66, Manager 8 is criticizing 白羽’s condescending attitude toward the job.

コンビニのバイトなんてーって、馬鹿にした感じで喋るんだよね。だったら働くなっつーの。

I can’t figure out the second sentence here. I thought it might be a casual contraction of っていう but that still doesn’t quite explain it.

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Yes, it is! :slight_smile: It’s a bit like 'so what I’m saying is …’ or ‘… Is what I’m saying’ in this case.

Possibly what’s tripping you up might be 働くな? It’s a negative imperative. Completely broken down, the sentence looks like this:
だったら if it’s like that
働くな don’t work (here)
っつー →っつう →っていう quotation marking (the ‘quote’ here is 働くな)
sentence ending particle of explanation/ emotional emphasis

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After falling behind in week 4, I finally caught up :partying_face: :partying_face: And just in time for week 7.

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Oof, I felt like I flying through the first couple of pages, with entire parts of the dialogue that I could read without looking anything up.

And then I hit this monster of a sentence.

そこに、反論に対する怯えや警戒、もしくは、反発してくるなら受けてたってやるぞという好戦的な光が宿っている場合もあれば、無意識に見下ろしているときは、優越感の混ざった恍惚とした快楽でできた液体に目玉が浸り、膜が張っている場合もある。

(edit: fixed typo above)

Feeling the need to break it down, mostly because of it’s length - and if I’m going to go through the trouble of doing it part by part, might as well do it here!

Here we go...

Previous sentence for context:
何かを見下ろしている人は、別に目の形が面白くなる。
= As for people who look down a something, they will have a particularly interesting eye shape?

そこに = there
反論に対する怯えや警戒 = Fear of rebuttal and vigilance
もしくは = otherwise
発表してくるなら = if they continue to announce
反発してくるなる = If they are given opposition
受けてたってやるぞ = to accept the challenge, I’ll (?) do
という好戦的な光が = belligerent light which say
宿っている to remain
場合もあれば = situation may arise
無意識に見下ろしているときは = Times which look down unconsciously
優越感の混ざった恍惚とした快楽で = Pleasure comprising of ecstasy mixed with a sense of superiority (is this one of those の marks the subject situations?)
できた = to be made
液体に = fluid (is this a metaphor?)
目玉が浸り = eyeballs become immersed
膜が張っている場合もある = Situation in which a film forms may arise

Here is my best go:
There, a fear of rebuttal or perhaps vigilance, or else, if given opposition If they continue to announce (?) there might remain a belligerent light which say “I’ll accept the challenge”, and as for times in which those eyes look down unconsciously, the eyeballs become immersed in a fluid made from pleasure comprising of ecstasy mixed with a sense of superiority, this situation, in which a film forms, may also arise.

Oof, I think I kind of get it but this has been one of the toughest sentences I’ve broken down in a while - it’s not even because of the grammar, it’s how the whole thing flows together. The whole logic of the sentence still somewhat escapes. Input welcome :slight_smile:

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I’ll read this more in-depth soon, but I want to say that this sentence killed me as well! I’m excited for the breakdown.

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you put in 発表して after もしくは but in the text, it’s 反発してくるなら “being given resistance/opposition”

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You are right, that makes much more sense! Will edit accordingly…

Ha, well don’t be too excited, not sure how much I got right.

This is a case of the の standing in for, or having the function a が would in that place. But you got the meaning, so :+1:.

my attempt at a breakdown

そこに refers to ‘the shape of those eyes’ or perhaps the ‘eyes’ in general - thanks for the context sentence, definitely necessary for me! :see_no_evil:

〜もあれば、〜もある is a pretty set phrase meaning both one thing and the other are true, or occur. So in this case ‘in some case it’s A, in some B’. So you can look at each of these parts separately.

反論に対する怯えや警戒、もしくは、反発してくるなら受けてたってやるぞという好戦的な光が宿っている(場合もあれば、)

There’s fear of rebuttal and caution (in their eyes), or a belligerent light saying they’ll accept the challenge/fight if they’re opposed (in their eyes)

無意識に見下ろしているときは、優越感の混ざった恍惚とした快楽でできた液体に目玉が浸り、膜が張っている場合もある

When they’re looking down on someone unconsciously, the eyeballs become immersed in/moist with a fluid that’s made of a pleasure that is ecstasy mixed with superiority and a film builds.

Which… Doesn’t make much sense to me haha. Anyway, putting that together:

Sometimes there will be a fear of rebuttal and caution in their eyes, or a belligerent light saying they’ll accept the challenge/fight if they’re opposed. Other times, when they’re looking down on someone unconsciously, the eyeballs become immersed in/moist with a fluid that’s made of a pleasure that is ecstasy mixed with superiority and a film builds in their eyes.

I feel like it makes more sense in the Japanese than I managed to put into my attempt at a translation - she’s describing what she finds interesting about how people’s eyes look when they’re being condescending.

I think this is really a literal description of what she sees, and there’s no metaphors. The 液体 would be the film of liquid we have in our eyes. It keeps them from drying out, and does change with our emotional state. It also looks different when our eyes’ shape changes - when people are happy they often widen their eyes, and their eyes may look shiny. I think this is similar to what she’s describing, except I don’t really know what eyes do when someone is being condescending. :thinking:

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Heh. We bumped into that during the live reading too. In particularly, the clause 優越感の混ざった恍惚とした快楽 seems to be a weird pile-up of modifying phrases modifying modifying phrases.

Like, [[[[優越感の]混ざった]恍惚とした]快楽], or something.

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Oh boy this was a bad couple of weeks for my Japanese reading and studying. Work really picked up and Persona 5 Strikers came out, so book club unfortunately had to take a backseat.

Everything with Shiraha was just kinda… gross. While yes, he’s clearly a skeezy person, the way everybody else was ready to dogpile and dismiss him was also uncomfortable to see (Keiko especially).

It’s not so much that they did it, it’s that they seemed to take joy in doing so. Honestly, I’d say the only difference between Keiko and Shiraha is that Keiko is content with where she is. The satisfaction with complacency doesn’t breed resentment as easily, so I can see why she’s far more risk-averse and aware of her situation.

Okay, now that I’ve finally caught up… guess it’s time for Week 7 orz

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Something to look out for (and forward to?) the next time someone’s being an arsehole to your face :sweat_smile:

My heart broke for Keiko because it really reinforces the fundamental belief on which she has built her life; that society is merciless towards those who don’t conform. It’s not a thought about which you’d relish being proved right.

I was wondering about this sentence:

男女平等だなんだといながら…」

DeepL turns it into 'They say it’s all about gender equality…" and the Dutch translation gives something similar, but I can’t figure out how they came to that conclusion? How does だなんだ work?

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Thanks! This makes sense. I wouldn’t have been able figure it out without your explanation.

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