Hello once again! I feel like I should make a dedicated thread at this point for my grammar questions lol… It seems like every week or two I come across something that just completely throws me for a loop.
This week I find myself frustrated with the particles を and に because it seems like they could almost be interchangeable.
I know both of these particles have more than 1 use, but in this case the only way I can explain why they are confusing to me right now is with some good old fashioned examples.
友達に会います
I will meet my friend
先生に話します
I spoke to the teacher
In both of these examples, I am finding myself confused as to why we are using に instead of を.
Could we not relate 友達 and 会います with を? I thought を was supposed to relate objects…
Well as it turns out を is used for relating DIRECT objects, に is for INDIRECT objects. This is a subtle piece of information that I seemed to have gloss over lightly when I should have given it more consideration.
I have been trying to understand the difference between direct and indirect but I haven’t really been able to grasp this concept.
I thought I had maybe come up with a system where basically I could check a verb in WaniKani to see if it is intransitive or transitive, and then use に for intransitive, or を for transitive, but I think this is the wrong approach and not even correct anyway…
So the gist is, I have no clue when it’s grammatically correct to use を or に to relate an object to a verb and I seem to be struggling hard to find anything that may remotely resemble an answer…
Hopefully this all made sense, I have spent 3 hours looking into this now and I don’t feel like I’ve gotten anywhere close to an answer! D:
The way I always tell the difference between direct and indirect objects is through checking whether the object can take an article, e.g. ‘the’ or ‘a’. The direct will always have an article whereas the indirect will never.
“I gave my dog a bone”. Which do you think is the direct object, and which the indirect object? Using the method I just told you, we can infer that the ‘bone’ is the direct object and the ‘dog’ is the indirect object. Another way to think about it is this: The indirect object (the bone) is always the thing with which you are doing the action, and the direct object (the dog) is receiving the action.
If we use another example: “I gave a bone to a dog” you can see that it breaks the rule. If this is the case you need to watch out for the preposition (the to); the object after the preposition will still be the indirect object.
I’m not sure whether this explanation was really convoluted; my apologies if it was.
TL;DR: The indirect object receives the action; the direct object is the thing with which you do the action.
(Also, @Saida I can’t believe you stole first answer! I was typing first… )
Ah, but it’s this phrasing in particular that highlights the similarities with the use of に in Japanese. I gave a bone to my dog - に. I put the book on the table - に. I met with my friend - に.
So it was a potentially correct approach after all?
I suppose I need to “get good” at determining what is a direct object and what isn’t.
It’s good to know then that these verbs will never take direct objects so that when I use them, I know which particle they will take, I just have to make sure I am not using a direct object with them…
I think it basically comes down to this…I’m not sure it’s particularly helpful thinking more deeply about it. You’ve gotta learn which verbs are transitive and which are intransitive, and use を or に respectively to mark the object.
Unless… I can stick whatever noun I want before the appropriate particle relating the object to the verb?
Perhaps it’s truly a matter of “this verb relates to an object with this particle” and you just have to remember it? There’s no method to the madness really, just have to remember it like you have to remember exceptions?
You will run into transitional intransitive verbs as well, which can get a を as well: 道を通る for example. It’s important to see that these are still intransitive, though . You use を for the space that the verb moves through, if that makes sense. 交差点を曲がる is another one.
And there are more rules that will allow を for intransitive verbs when you apply passive and causative voice to them, as well. But it’s all quite logical, and I wouldn’t rush to learn them all right now.
I’m surprised the question is not about に and と in this contexts, because for instance that’s what was bothering me personally. The answer I found online somewhere said that below sentences are similar:
友達に会いた。
友達と会いた。
I think there is a slightly difference, but I’m not there yet .
I can relate to your confusion somewhat as years ago I only knew of を and it got into my head that it’s used most often.
I wouldn’t really try to break it down in terms of transitive and intransitive verbs and direct or indirect objects, because that way you kind of need to pay attention to the sentence structure and grammar all the time. And there are some surprises with を, for instance in sentences like:
町を歩く。
You don’t “walk the town”, you “walk through the town”. But none of the other particles would make sense here, since they would mean something totally different.
Rather try to “feel” what is the relationship between the verb and its object:
A uses B as a tool (context) of an action - で
A uses B directly - を
A directs action to B - に (or と for verbs like 会う and 話す)
A directs action to B, but without B necessarily being the final goal of the action - へ
The good news is you don’t have to guess. Just pay attention to what is used in natural Japanese. When you are reading, notice which particles get used with which verbs and copy that when you try to make sentences.
会った is the correct conjugation! に sounds slightly more Japanese. Strictly speaking the second can have a second meaning as well: 友達と(先生に)会った: I met (my teacher )with my friend.
Rather try to “feel” what is the relationship between the verb and its object:
A uses B as a tool (context) of an action - で
A uses B directly - を
A directs action to B - に (or と for verbs like 会う and 話す)
A directs action to B, but without B necessarily being the final goal of the action - へ
I’m not sure I fully understand this, but I feel like this is actually super useful info that might help me understand this better… Do you happen to have any examples in mind that could further explain these?
Absolutely!
を：日本語を勉強しています。
I am studying Japanese. (no particle, since it’s a direct target of the action)
で：会社に電車で行く。
I go to (direction of the action) the office/company by (context/tool) train.
映画館で映画を見た。
I saw a movie (no particle in English, but “movie” is the direct target of “saw”) at (context) a movie theater.
に：日本に行きたい。
I want to go to (direction of the action) Japan.
へ：この電車は松山へ行く。
This train goes towards (not necessarily the final destination) Matsuyama.
EDIT:
The existence verbs いる and ある are super fun as well, because they too can take に as a particle:
アリスは、どこにいますか？
Where is Alice?
Think about it that way - you direct your existence to a location.
EDIT2: and I forgot to add an example with を alone, my bad
Thank you so much! The examples do help.
I’m also taking a look at that link you provided as well…
に is referred to as a “target” particle which makes sense to me mostly. I know how to use it for time and location of existence.
Would I be correct in saying
を：I am doing (insert verb) directly to this (insert object). object + wo + verb
に：I am directing (insert verb) to this (insert object). object + ni + verb
But then again, should that be correct, it still confuses me because you’re directing your action towards an object in both cases… Right?
)
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