What to do with all the rendaku inconsistency 😭

[WaniTsunami]

Roll with it and learn as you go.

[2tea]

@MikeyDC65

Here is an example of a minimal pair for うえなかった。 One of them is 植えなかった ((it) didn’t grow) and the other is 飢えなかった ((I) didn’t starve).

The difference is so slight my first reaction was, I hear it differently because I was told, something about the うえ part. I used to record and edit my music on and off over the years, so obviously the sound waves corroborated it, but if you don’t know the why behind it it’s sounds like two different takes of the same phrase. A western ear might interpret it as an energy/mood things not pitch accent.

@MikeyDC65

For example, in the reverse, when put to the test, most native Japanese speakers really can’t tell the difference between an r and an l unless they have actively done something lie minimal pair training. Those who haven’t typically do no better than 50% accuracy.

It’s very similar withThai where at times roo becomes loo and ron becomes kon. And since I don’t know any Thai apart from the very most basic polite hello and thank you, I had to have a few interactions in order to extrapolate it.

[Student-Bunny]

@escargotagile

I haven’t found a way to use userscripts on Android, and in any case I wouldn’t like to cheat the system, I was just slightly frustrated about not remembering things.

Ah
you’d have to use the smoldering(?) durtles app

I just use no-script WK in browser when I’m on my phone bc I prefer to use desktop anyway

But I don’t think this userscript would count as cheating because its just an addition to lessons saying why something is or isn’t rendaku

[mgrice]

@KGalaj

I thought Japanese children don’t make an active effort to think about pitch accent, they just copy what they hear - and yet, it seems they do end up speaking with accurate pitch accents. Why do you think it would be different for learners of Japanese in general?

Japanese children are fully immersed in Japanese 24 hours a day/7 days a week/365 days a year. They hear only Japanese at home, in school, outside, on TV, on radio and they are absorbing and learning this at a young age when the parts of the brain relating to acquiring language are still growing and forming.

I would expect that this does not apply to learners of Japanese in general.

[escargotagile]

@Student-Bunny

its just an addition to lessons saying why something is or isn’t rendaku

Oh, you mean the actual historical reason? This is interesting.

I sometimes use Flaming Durtles when I need some specific setting, but usually I use the browser, and I don’t have access to a computer for the next few months…

[Student-Bunny]

@escargotagile

Oh, you mean the actual historical reason? This is interesting.

hmm, not that detailed but it definitely points out patterns and stuff
I also like the phonetic-semantic composition userscript for the same reason

Unfortunatley i had to reinstall firefox on my pc and ive not been able to get userscripts working since

[MikeyDC65]

@2tea

The difference is so slight my first reaction was, I hear it differently because I was told, something about the うえ part. I used to record and edit my music on and off over the years, so obviously the sound waves corroborated it, but if you don’t know the why behind it it’s sounds like two different takes of the same phrase. A western ear might interpret it as an energy/mood things not pitch accent.

Right. For reference, the difference is that the pitch falls after え on one of them and after な on the other one which can be seen pretty clearly in the audio waveforms. Even knowing there is a difference and what that difference is, it takes a fair amount of practice to reliably choose which one is which when hearing them randomly. The good news is that once you’ve actually trained yourself to hear the difference though, you’ll start to wonder how it is that you couldn’t hear it to begin with!

[polv]

Actually, I don’t agree that with enough exposure and experience, everything will sort out. I might agree if to say, most things. Something may remain forever wrong, unless dealt with somehow. But “most” might already be enough to support old words, and function.

Theoretically, with enough exposure and living using the language, one might sort out learning a language without grammar and a dictionary. But in reality, both are helpful things for a long while, alongside exposure. Not to mention ear / pronunciation.

Regarding OP, I used mnemonics in the past, started with mostly English-based, before making some Japanese-based ones (which might not be etymologically accurate). I rarely make a mnemonic these days.

Particularly, zoo was in my old mnemonic.

human zoo (人数(にんずう)) and tennis score (点数(てんすう))

I am thinking about the second pair on the spot. Perhaps,

Son Goku in 天国(てんごく). Or maybe, like a paradise (極楽(ごくらく)) or a hell (地獄(じごく))

全国(ぜんこく), like various kites flying in the sky, in front of the UN office or something.

The aforementioned userscript is [Userscript] WaniKani Rendaku Information. It appears that Goku is an exception rather than a rule, so remembering just a few words might already work.

I don’t really use this script though.

[2tea]

@polv

Actually, I don’t agree that with enough exposure and experience, everything will sort out. I might agree if to say, most things. Something may remain forever wrong, unless dealt with somehow. But “most” might already be enough to support old words, and function.

True, in general, but the assumption in this particular forum is that people that use wanikani are learning grammar and using dictionaries.
In general, there are grammar rules that if you’re not being corrected when speaking/taught as a native, self proclaimed language purist / academics will insist you’re wrong, a true linguist knows that when it comes to the spoken language the written rules are more of an approximation and a spoking language is a dynamic thing.