JLPT exam n3

The real test uses a complicated mathematical system to automatically weight questions depending on how many other people get them right (so a question almost everybody gets right is worth fewer points because it’s clearly easy, while one half the candidates get wrong is a hard question that is worth more for your score if you get it right). This means that it’s not really possible to convert a “number of questions correct” score, because it would depend on the exact questions.

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Is there any good explanation for shieki and shieki ukemi grammar points?
I have gone through bunpro and jlpt sensei explanations.

I get confused with shieki and shieki ukemi because both kinda mean making someone do something.

It’s really just about keeping track of the subject and object.

As an aside, nearly all learners refer to these as causative and causative passive, so more people might respond to requests that use those terms.

Do you have a solid understanding of passive on its own?

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yes, i do .

OK, hopefully this explanation of causative vs causative-passive will make sense then:

Causative is the simpler of the two, and it’s always “SUBJECT makes or lets another person do an action”.

和夫は夏子に酒を飲ませた - Kazuo made / let Natsuko drink sake

The focus here is on the person in subject position (Kazuo); that’s our viewpoint. In this kind of sentence it’s ambiguous whether the other person is happy with this or not (the made/let distinction). (Sentences with an auxiliary verb of giving/receiving on the end clarify that it’s not the “made somebody do X” meaning.)

Causative-passive is then taking a causative sentence and applying passive to it, using the same formation (add -rareru, move subjects around, etc) and meaning change:

夏子は和夫に酒を飲ませられた - Natsuko was made to drink sake by Kazuo

Here the focus is on Natsuko – in the same way as all passives, we use the grammar form to put the focus on the person we’re interested in talking about. A causative-passive sentence also has to be the “made to” meaning, not the “let” meaning.

Tofugu has an article on the two: Japanese Verb Causative Form させる

FWIW, I think the passive, causative, and verbs of giving and receiving (especially where more than one of them is used at once) are the “difficult bits” of late-beginner/early-intermediate grammar. If you can get your head around these then the rest is more straightforward, but they’ll likely need more time and maybe coming back to the topic multiple times for them to sink in.

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Thanks, ya that makes sense.

In theory i get what is happening but its difficult to make it stick. In such sentences is it common to omit 私 ?

I will try to remember that if the one who is making / forcing is marked by に then causative- passive needs to be used.

The usual rules of thumb about omitting clauses apply:

  • If something is obvious from context it can be dropped - most usually “I” in statements , “you” in questions, or when it’s somebody the conversation is already about
  • If the agent in a に clause is unimportant it can be dropped (same as English passive – the “by so-and-so” clause is not mandatory)

With passives of any kind, the subject is the “viewpoint” character and generally who the speaker is empathising with, which can make the subject obvious enough not to need mentioning. For example if you’re talking about how your friend had their bag stolen by some guy on the street, you’re going to be doing it from the viewpoint of your friend, not the anonymous robber, and so if you use a passive it’s most likely not going to be the robber in subject position. (Though of course if you try hard enough you can come up with scenarios where you do find yourself telling part of the story from the robber’s point of view.)

Watch out also where verbs of giving and receiving are involved – the way that くれる, あげる etc are always in one direction for ingroup/outgroup means that they can make the giver or receiver obvious and therefore not need stating. If you mentally gloss both of these as “to give” you are giving yourself a harder “guess the subject” job than you need to.

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Sorry but going back to the example you had given. If this comes in the exam as :
和夫は夏子に酒を _____
A)飲ませた B) 飲ませられた

Aren’t both answers correct? Because who made whom drink can only be determined by the verb. :thinking:

If i choose 飲ませられた then Kazuo was made to drink sake by Natsuko which isn’t wrong since this is a made up scenario. So for such a question what answer should be selected in the exam?

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Both are grammatically correct. If it were to be in an exam there would have to be context making it clear who would be drinking.

Like maybe

和夫は夏子に酒を _____から運転できなくなった。

or

和夫は夏子に酒を _____から夏子の友達に怒られた。

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Proper exam questions are structured to avoid multiple possible answers.

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Gotcha, thanks :slight_smile:

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