Jisho's study Log

I’m a new poster to the forums but have been lurking for a while. I’m just getting started with my Japanese learning journey, but I have a strong background in classical (literary) Chinese which is surprisingly helping me somewhat. I’m an acupuncturist, herbalist, small business owner & Zen practitioner. I got tired of learning a language that I wasn’t going to be able to speak to anyone, so in 2024 decided to pause/slow my classical Chinese learning to pursue Japanese instead. My goal is to be able to attend Zen monastery/temple services in Japanese as well as Japanese acupuncture lectures - without a translator. I’m hoping to get there by late 2027, when I’m planning my first trip to Japan.

I currently use WaniKani, Kanshudo, Bunpro, Genki textbooks/workbooks & a robust interlinked Obsidian database following an intricate plan I developed with the input of a Japanese friend & another friend who is a language instructor at the University level. I’m hoping to use this log just to keep accountable to my goals and also to connect with others - learning on your own is lonely at times!

Thanks to anybody who reads my logs and cheers me on - I’ll certainly be doing so to others who are posting to their logs. Appreciate the energy of this forum!

17 Likes

A little more detail on my methods…

I am using the Refold method as the backbone of my study. All that really means to me is that I prioritize immersion to a large degree. For immersion activities, I use the plugin Iago as well as a smattering of other tools, and actively engage with the content. For video, mostly YouTube and some Netflix. I also use Satori Reader, which I love, and I have some print graded readers. I also have some Japanese acupuncture videos I’m slowly making my way through, but they’re still far beyond my level, so I’m mostly just letting it wash over me.

I use WaniKani & Anki for my vocab priming. For more structured learning (I guess, ultimately grammar priming) I use Kanshudo & Human Japanese, and supplement with things like Bunpro & Genki textbooks. I probably do these activities a bit more than a more dogmatic Refold cultist might, which is fine by me. I knit all my learning together via a very deeply developed Obsidian database that I started a long time ago during some of my Classical Chinese studies.

Refold isn’t big on early output/production, but as a person with a scholarly orientation, and just a big text based learner, I write with the vocab and grammar I’m learning pretty much every day in my Obsidian database. I use Kanshudo’s AI correcting tool to help keep me oriented with that.

Right now I’m putting about 15 active hours per week into my studies - roughly 30% SRS (WK & Anki), 40% Immersion & 30% Structured Learning. Some weeks I get closer to 20 hours, but in those weeks a lot of that “extra” is passive or partly passive immersion.

I’ve recently started using a “physical rotation box” (basically an index card based SRS system) for specialized Zen & Japanese Acupuncture terminology. I’ve also been doing some sutra copying. I find that while I’m a very digitally oriented person, doing those activities outside of my devices helps keep my brain from getting too tired.

This week, I feel I made a big leap forward. The immersion content I use right now is quite simple, but I’ve gone from feeling like 50% of the content needs some kind of lookup to feeling like 10% or less does. I’m not sure what pushed me over a kind of threshold, maybe just reached some appropriate number of vocab words, but I am grateful for it!

My heaviest study days are Thursday, Friday and Saturday, so I hope to come and check in after I reach that point in the week.

9 Likes

Welcome to WaniKani and this community! catwave
I really hope you’d like it here! love2

Having an Obsidian database is really cool.
I’ve been doing something very similar, only I didn’t know about Obsidian back then, so I’m using my own app, but the principle is the same.

Sticky notes that can be linked together – are really useful for studying!

Anyway, best of luck with your studies! wricat

6 Likes

Oh wow! Yeah, I used to have my own wiki I hosted on a server to do Obsidian-like stuff, but it was a pain to take care of and I fell off the wagon early in my medical school career. I also use Devonthink, which has a wiki-like function, but nothing as great as Obsidian. I’m obsessed with it. :slight_smile:

Anyway, thanks for the welcome! It’s very nice to have such an active forum, keep me motivated on this crazy path.

5 Likes

Welcome!

Ohhhh, I would love to hear how you’ve done this if you don’t mind sharing. I’ve been using Obsidian for a few years for other studies but haven’t tried using it for my Japanese studying beyond organising resources and keeping a personal study log.

3 Likes

I’ll try to share some images and such at some point in the future. I’ve had more complex setups in the past, using flashcard plugins and similar, but ultimately I found them to be more of a distraction than anything.

At this point, I have a few different note types:

  • Radicals
  • Kanji
  • Vocab (Verbs get their own type)
  • Sentences
  • Grammar Points
  • Misc Language, Culture, etc

The first four have templates that I use very reliably. Some share properties (YAML metadata, basically) and also have unique properties. For instance verbs have the verb type, transitive v intransitive. I have a property for N1-N5, frequency, similar. I’ve also started including properties that indicate what type of “grouping” a word is in - for instance - words about food & eating, etc… I then parse these into dataview queries, depending on my needs. For instance, I have a query that shows me all the N5 verbs, or N4 intransitives, etc…

I use interlinking heavily. Transitive verbs with their intransitive pairs. Words that are related in some way that isn’t represented in metadata. I link them to concepts such as aspects of my professional life, or Classical Chinese constructions of interest.

I use Daily Notes and templates, and always list what I studied that day so I can find patterns & sometimes this helps me discover things when I can’t remember something but I remember something about the day when I studied it. This has mostly been helpful in recovering resources (rather than vocab) such as when I find a new useful website or a book someone recommended.

There’s more to it, and I’m always developing it over time. It’s really fun to look at the global graph view and watch the complexity of aspects of my language study grow over time. I’ve seen deficiencies in my study plan by seeing where I started with a particular line of study and then never developed it. Many people think graph view is useless, but I’ve found it to be quite interesting.

Anyway, that’s a little glimpse. I’ll share some more in the future with images…

9 Likes

Thank you for the detailed response!

I’m always tinkering with my notes systems and switching between digital and analogue modes, for some reason I have always resisted using Obsidian for my Japanese notes and stuck with analogue but sometimes I do wish it were easier to find things later.

4 Likes

はじめまして, JishoGreyさん

… JishoGrey, I’m grateful that you are sharing your thoughts on your many topics of interest, including tools for managing and deepening interconnections between those apparently diverse topics.

… The use of a database and digital tools is very smart! Especially as more of my older relatives fall prey to dementia and Alzheimer’s and other brain and body-degrading illnesses… this directed interlinked database method of external brain augmentation is fabulous (especially if the technology remains accessible, or easily portable to current platforms) …

…I want to evolve a personal database, but am too (overwhelmed? lazy?) to do the required groundwork… Although I have been encouraged by others on this forum to spend some time playing in Obsidian’s sandbox. So I’m rather envious of what you are striving to do and have already accomplished. お疲れ様でした!!

…I have recently started learning Chinese. I’ve have already become frustrated by the divergence and slightly uneven adaptation and growth of ancient Chinese culture into modern the Japanese.

…For example, I had hoped the Japanese onyomi would be very close to the Mandarin Chinese for each recognizably similar kanji/hanzi pair. AND that the meaning would have 90%+ overlap in modern usage.
…But it seems that Mandarin has a large component of using Hanzi like for sounds of foreign language-derived words in a similar manner to how Japanese use kana! と思いますIMO …
… And (for me) worse, my brain is tangling up the language production routes right now (relatively early stage in Japanese and very early stage in learning Mandarin)… So I’ll be sitting there struggling to close a synaptic circuit and speak the correct word when language switching.
…Myaaargh!!!
…I still admire your goal, and I believe you have mapped out a strong course to achieving your goal in your accelerated yet reasonable-for-you timeline!

… I’m eager to hear your thoughts along the journey! 応援します!!Go, Team JishoGrey !
Belated welcome to the forum!
よろしくお願いします

5 Likes

お返事ありがとうございます!!

Agree so much regarding the “external brain augmentation.” This has been an interest of mine since my early days as undergrad in Philosophy when I first learned about externalized cognition. Now, as a healthcare provider in an aging community - I treat a lot of folks over 75yo - I see first-hand the effects of not preparing for the aging process all the time! Obsidian has the wonderful effect of being based entirely on Markdown documents, so it is eminently portable, as long as computers exist in their current form. Phew!

I hear you about the overwhelm. The key is seeing it as an iterative process that can start with just a few documents. When people get too intense about it, or try to be too comprehensive at the start, they get overwhelmed. I encourage you just to download the app and create a few documents and resolve to play with it a few minutes a day. There are so many great communities to use to learn more - I am a big fan of Nick Milo and “Linking Your Thinking.”

I’m finding my long time dabbling in Classical Chinese to actually be quite helpful in studying Kanji, mostly because I am not having to adjust to a whole new writing system. But, I do often get tripped up by pronunciation from time to time, particularly for characters I use a lot. But, yes, it is frustrating there is not more homogeny between them… I salute you in trying to learn both at once! I’d be happy to share the agony and the ecstasy with you as we travel down this road.

よろしくお願いします! :folded_hands:

7 Likes

I’m not quite sure how I want to check in here, yet, but here goes nothing. I’m still spending a bit more time on cultivating my study program & working on templates in my database than I would like - but things are getting more and more dialed in as I integrate all I’ve learned about immersion in language learning.

I have a pretty good cadence down at this point throughout my week:

  • M-F (my heavy clinic days) I basically just keep up with my SRS and do passive immersion on my daily walks (30m x2). I’m spending about an hour a day on SRS vocab between Anki (Kashi 1.5k deck) and WaniKani (getting close to L7). My passive immersion on these days is usually JapanesePod101 lessons, sometimes just comprehensible input YouTube videos - but audio only.
  • Thursday is my biggest study day, I generally do about 6 hours. I do my same hour of SRS, then do around 2h of structured learning (Kanshudo Lessons, Genki, Human Japanese lessons, etc). I’ve been shooting for 2h of intensive immersion (not all at once) and then about an hour of more freeflow immersion, or sometimes I do more focused grammar study depending on the week.
  • Friday I have to run my business, so often have a lot of meetings. Still, I’m able to get around 90m of intensive immersion, another 30-60m of structured lessons and my regular hour of SRS in. Some weeks the business requires less of me, so I have more time for immersion or grammar deep dives. I will also often do some output on Fridays, just 30m or so of trying to make sentences and checking them with the Kanshudo sentence correcting tool.
  • Saturday & Sunday ebb and flow based on what’s happening at home. I always get my hour of SRS in, of course. 90% of the time, I get about 4 hours of other study done on each day. 90m of immersion, 30-60m of structured lessons. On the weekends, I like to do calligraphy, more meta stuff like listening to Japanese history audiobooks or doing deep dives into Kanji. Less cognitive load on the weekends or I burn out.

This is the basic flow at this point. Sometimes my SRS takes me longer than an hour because something isn’t sticking. This new Anki deck is really context rich, so I get provoked to investigate things a bit more often. Sometimes I spend a bit more time with structured lessons or grammar, that stuff is really hard for me, so it just depends on how my brain feels.

I do passive immersion most of time I’m walking or doing stuff around the house/yard. JapanesePod101, Pimsleur, YouTube videos, Japanese language podcasts - that kind of stuff. If something really catches my ear, I’ll sometimes stop and make a note in my Daily Note in Obsidian to follow up on it.

I work in my Obsidian database all week, no matter what. Sometimes it’s mostly looking things up, adding a line or two to a note, pretty minimal. Sometimes, I spend hours in there interlinking content, developing conjugation tables, writing sentences and correcting them in Kanshudo, and stuff like that. I’ve also been working with another tool, TheBrain, which is a multi-dimensional mindmapping software. I’ve found it pretty helpful in mapping out how kanji and vocabulary sets relate to one another. I really like that tool, but it’s a bit messier than Obsidian, so it’s not my primary knowledge hub.

I’ve been shadowing along with any audio most times. I find some output and speaking practice to be important to keep my brain engaged.

I’ve also just started to create a physical rotation box (index cards in a box set up to do a sort of manual SRS system) for Zen & Acupuncture terminology. I get tired of being on devices all the time, and this gives me a chance to practice my handwriting which is important to me. When I first started learning Classical Chinese, we were forbidden to type characters and did all of our homework by hand. So, it’s sort of embedded in me that writing is part of the deal, even though I know not everyone does much of that. I find it very enjoyable.

I’ve been surprised this week with how much of the Comprehensible Japanese videos I understand without lookups. While I know there is all this tension within the Japanese language learning community about which methods, which websites, which books “work,” I’m finding that mixing together ALL of the things is working best for me. While I am often annoyed that I’m not learning more common vocabulary in WaniKani, my Anki deck takes care of that. AND, I find that the words I’ve learned from WK “stick” more, and the systematic learning of radicals → kanji → vocab really works for me. Perhaps partly because of my Chinese background.

I’m feeling good about my program, my progress, and what’s to come!

7 Likes

I’m curious, which radicals naming style do you use the most ? Do you keep the more traditional ones (are they the same from your Chinese practice ?) or do you prefer the WK ones ? Are you customizing / renaming them.

5 Likes

This is a place where my Obsidian database comes in. I naturally know the vast majority in their more typical/traditional forms, which are what I had saved in my database originally. And as I learn the WK ones (or come across others - Kanshudo has a few I’ve never seen before) I add them to the note for that radical. I also add them as aliases in metadata so I can more readily find them when I want to.

Some of the old traditional namings are stuck in my head and will probably never leave. But, I must admit I find the WK ones to be a bit more fun, and fun seems to enhance my learning. I’ve actually been surprised with how readily my brain has attached to some of the WK radical names.

So, in short, I keep track of all of them, but in my database most are officially named with the traditional labels.

5 Likes