Japanese class or self-taught (or both)?

[kinome]

I’m in an exceptionally crappy language school in Japan, where you’re expected to learn everything via rote memorization (which to be fair I think is the way it’s taught everywhere here, but my school is clearly a visa mill). I was struggling so much keeping up with homework and work that I stopped WaniKani after a few levels and focused on what I was given in school. Now it’s been almost a year and I’ve retained almost nothing (kanji-wise) from school, so I’m back. I think WaniKani is my only hope at ever learning kanji, so now I just bomb the kanji tests in school knowing that I’m learning more efficently here (albeit inconveniently in a different order… I think it’ll get me there in the end). I wish I had stuck with it last year!

For grammar I’m learning some in school which really makes a difference in terms of accountability, but honestly I learn a lot of it outside of class anyway with self study because the style of teaching doesn’t match my learning style and I’d be lost otherwise (they never explain particles at all, for example, you just have to figure out what to use after you’ve seen a sentence with it). If I didn’t need a visa I would quit this school and hire a tutor for a couple of hours a week (to give me homework/keep me accountable), and I’d use WaniKani, self study with textbooks, BunPro, Memrise or Anki for vocab, and I’d have more time to go meet and talk with people for practice.

I looooooooove the Crabigator. <3

[Naphthalene]

Hm, I have somehow mentioned a couple times what I did on this forum, so I might be a bit dry this time. (Probably still going to be verbose, though).

self-taught for three years with whatever resources I could find. That did not help much.

Then, actual classes for two years back in my home country. It helped with basic grammar.

Then moved to Japan. The first year, I registered for some classes offered by my University. They were much better than the one I had so far, and I made fast progress, but other classes got in the way. Toward the end of the second semester, I could barely follow anymore.

I then skipped one year (of learning Japanese). I “selfstudied” by reading manga pretty much 24/7. That was the blessed time when reading became pretty easy, so I just binged. Not sure I actually made much actual progress, but at least I didn’t regress either.

Then, I got accepted into a special Japanese learning program from my University offered by the department of research in education. Basically, they needed test subjects to test their methods. So I got intensive classes (6 hours a day) for about 6 months. Sadly, I was in the “control” group, so I was taught using “traditional” methods, but it was still pretty damn good. I went from barely N3 to almost N2 in those 6 months. (I failed by a handful of points) (Fun fact, that’s also when I registered on WK)

Then… well, I felt stuck. I still registered again for regular class, but after that, everything felt pretty damn slow. After one year I did try N2 again. Got it, but not by much, and I just stopped classes.

For a couple of years, I didn’t do anything really focused learning-wise. I was mostly playing with random apps, and reading even more manga.

Three (?) years ago, I stumbled upon a website called Jalup (Japanese Level Up). It gave decent advice, and in particular explained how to use Anki. Also, they had monthly challenges (read two books, read one news article per day, …) That somehow helped me regain motivation and then keep going. Attempted the N1 a first time after a couple months of doing a lot of Anki everyday, failed by 3 points. Kinda stopped again, but by that time my reading was good enough to be comfortable reading novels, so I started reading a lot of that instead of manga. Attempted N1 again at the following session and passed.

And then… nothing. I just couldn’t find any motivation to keep studying. People around me (including, but not limited to, native speakers) kept telling me there was no point spending time and efforts trying to get better than that (lies!)… So I just stopped for a while, until that fateful day last December when I got an email from the WK team about winter sales.

Aaaaand as expected, that post is way too long.

[Gsai]

I imagine everyone’s answer here will be different. I started studying about 12 months ago and am 100% self-taught. I passed the JLPT N5 this past December and am hoping to go for N3 next year. While I haven’t taken any classes with a professional, I hope to at some point. Up to now I’ve done all the studying independently, using resources like WaniKani, Genki, BunPro, and a Japanese grammar dictionary.

[Iwasneverhere]

I teach myself. I started genki in the summer after I graduated high school (2016)and made it up to genki chapter 18 before college, and then finished the book that December. I took Japanese classes in my freshman year, and the two classes only made it up to chapter 12. So they were pretty slow and I didn’t learn anything new. The reinforcement was nice, and sometimes I learned an extra point not included in genki already. But I certainty didn’t need the class, it was just for fun. I could get conversation practice at conversation hour, and the kids in the classes couldn’t really speak Japanese anyway. I read tobira in the second half of 2017 and passed N3. tobira is another 3 classes at my college, so I would have taken me until my second half of senior year to get to where I am now, when I did it in 2 on my own. I considered not taking Japanese classes anymore, but I figured I might as well double major in it as it could bring nice opportunities and it’s a good gpa booster.

I’m for self study, both has also worked well for me too. But definitely if you can only work with one or the other, self study especially if classes are too slow for you.

[tabrion]

I am mostly self taught. I lived in Japan for five years, studying after my classes (from textbooks) and listening to my colleagues conversations to try and pick up any new vocab and grammar that I learned, which worked great, coz through immersion, I was able to considerable improve my Japanese knowledge, specifically for speaking and listening.

Two years after I returned home, I decided to pick studying Japanese up again, and then started my “journey” with Wanikani, but found that it wasn’t enough. And going through grammar points in the textbooks were not as effective as when I was living in Japan and heard what I had learned all around me.

So from the beginning of this year, I enrolled at a Japanese language school and I can really say that it is helping tremendously, especially for learning grammar, doing reading, listening and writing practise. It’s also great to ask my teacher anything to do with the language that a trained native language teacher would be best able to answer.

I found that the key to study Japanese (or any language) is IMMERSION!! And also to be consistent. As soon as you stop stimulating yourself with any form of Japanese, you start to lose those precious skills that you worked so hard on to gain. And that’s why I have Wanikani and Japanese classes. Wanikani will help tremendously with kanji and vocab, so essentially reading, but not for speaking, listening etc, so a classroom would be great for that, or even a language partner. Hope that helps.

[gurujeet]

I started with classes, got through Genki I and II. When I enrolled in the next level I found there was a huge gap and most of the other students had picked up a fair amount of Japanese elsewhere. I did like the group classes and the social interaction, but as others have said, once a week for 90 minutes just isn’t enough. So I really pushed on self-study. wasted a lot of time making cards in Anki at first and then found WK. Also discovered lots of great resources on WK and have been using those. I really like Japan Online Institute (japonin.com) and take classes there 3-4 times a week. I’m also trying to read every day from a variety of sources but currently enjoying the Japanese Graded Readers. Looking back, I wish I had gotten into self-study earlier along with the classes. I intend to go back to the class I didn’t feel ready for as I miss the group interaction, but feel that most of my progress now comes from self-study.

[chofas]

Oh, I’ve been looking at Japan Online Institute for a while now. Could you tell me about your experience and the method they use? I had not found anyone to tell me about it that is why I am reluctant to try it out.

[Hol]

I started with a private tutor in high school and then in college took classes for four years. Having group practices for speaking and listening was always great but I would say the worst part about class learning was the way kanji was taught - lots of memorization and cramming for tests to then promptly forget everything. I was so burned out and frustrated at the end of college that I just stopped Japanese for three years. Wanikani was the first serious learning tool I’ve picked back up (started July last year). I work full time and am in grad school in the evenings so once I finish in June I plan on reviewing old textbooks and starting Bunpro and maybe JALUP Next cards.

For me I would say having a foundation of learning from classroom study is making self study pretty easy to keep up with.

[gurujeet]

You can try out the classes - they have some sort of introductory offer - 3 classes for $9 I think. They have group classes (you can also sign up for individual lessons) over a Skype-like interface with a whiteboard for slides and presentation and a text chat area. You sign up for the classes individually. Each one stands alone and do not have to be done in sequence. To sign up you check off the level you would like a class at (I typically look for Beginner II or Low Intermediate) and it shows you the upcoming classes and the times they are presented and who the instructor is. Each class has a syllabus on the grammar point or whatever is being covered. You buy credits for the classes in a bundle and there are discounts for larger purchases. I pay about $8.50 a class. The teachers are very energetic and helpful and also facilitate discussion in Japanese between the students. All of the teachers have been good and some are really exceptional. If it fits your budget I would definitely recommend it. There are occasional internet connectivity issues, but not usually. You need a headset, and I gave up on the lower quality one I had and bought a nice Sennheiser one which has been a good investment for other things as well.

[Pkdragon]

Yeah, I took a year of Japanese in college, ended up learning very little. I’d say that classes are best as a supplement, to practice conversation and grammar with other learners. Going in knowing nothing about Japanese and how to learn languages , on the other hand, is a disaster waiting to happen.

I mean, I didn’t know what an SRS was, what mnemonics were, how to break into reading native material early, how to look up kanji in an online dictionary, how to best use an online dictionary in general- didn’t know any of this, and the classes didn’t teach them. My study method was to write the words in Japanese on one side of a paper, fold it, write the english translations on the other side, and go down the list over and over until it stuck. How far I have come…

Should I ever go back to school, get a teaching certificate, and start teaching classes, first day will be a candid discussion on how to learn.

Anyway, self-teaching kind of forces you to learn how to learn. Chances are if you look around the internet, you’ll run into the concept of SRS programs and mnemonics early on. There’s far more resources available than that one textbook you have to use in a class, meaning you can use the ones that fit you best, and there are ways to get around the lack of a classroom experience (tutors, finding others at your level and practicing with them). It’s not easy, but neither is a classroom experience.