I started off with the graded readers from Tadoku and other sources. Later on, I added N5 articles (mostly Watanoc) and NHK News Web Easy. Between them all, I’ve read hundreds of stories and articles. I use the Tadoku methods, so I go through them really quickly. If I can understand at least 80-90% and can gather the rest from context, I keep reading. I kind of feel like it would be the way a little kid would learn to read. I know I never pulled out a dictionary in elementary school while reading.
I look up some vocabulary for the news articles, but other than that, I rarely do. I’ve actually learnt a lot of grammar and vocabulary (recognition not production) without really trying. I save the trying for my grammar textbooks.
I see other people talk about sentence mining and dissecting passages. I’m wondering what your methods are and how it is helpful for you. I’m not sure that I’d have the attention span to spend so long on one section, but maybe I should give it a try.
Below are the Tadoku methods in case you are unfamiliar with them.
For me personally, dissecting and deciphering difficult material I wanted to read helped me rapidly build up a base understanding of Japanese grammar. Picking up on new grammar by reading alone unfortunately doesn’t work for me.
I think maybe I need to push myself into harder materials where I’ll actually have to think or look up things I don’t understand. Right now, a lot of it is too easy, but comfortable.
i don’t really like ‘true’ tadoku because it feels like you’re meant to somehow divine meaning only from context like you’re drawing meaning out of the ether. this works for nouns… sometimes… and as noted it sucks for grammar structures. i find comprehensible input works better generally
the bit of tadoku where you read widely, that i like
/that said i think it’s fine if you’re studying grammar elsewhere at the same time; you can treat tadoku as your ‘extensive reading’ practice and your study as ‘intensive’ practice and i think that’s a good balance
Yeah, I was thinking that. The Tadoku just reinforces what I’ve learnt through みんなの日本語 and Genki. The level 1 and some of the level 2 readers are getting too easy. The News Web Easy articles seem to be about the right level. I’m really good at holding myself back and avoiding challenges.
I really feel like avoiding dictionary lookups is the wrong solution to a real problem.
Yes, it is true that having to look stuff up all the time is not fun, but then again reading something and understanding 20% of it is not super entertaining either IMO.
That’s why you should aim for simpler material if you struggle too much, and especially at the start it’s well worth using apps like WaniKani, Bunpro or Anki to bootstrap your knowledge and make the transition to passive learning a bit more comfortable.
Ideally you want 95 to 98% understanding for optimal pain-to-studying ratio: you still have to look things up from time to time but you can get the vast majority of the meaning without having to look up anything. The problem is that if you’re a beginner, finding interesting content that gives you 95+% understanding is challenging.
yup. god knows i find having to look up things like more than 10 times a royal pain in the tuchus… but ‘don’t look anything up’ goes too far imho (unless you’re really okay with low comprehension runs)
With Japanese, I don’t see how you can get by without at least some dictionary lookups, if only to find out the readings of unfamiliar words! Generally, my strategy is to try to read through the sentence and see if there are any words that I can’t figure out from context within the next paragraph, and those are the ones I actually read through the definitions on. Anything I can figure out, I double-check just the reading on, and then reread the sentence.
It’s true that as kids learning to read for the first time, we don’t really look up words as we go (though arguably, asking parents/teachers what something means is essentially the same thing, and I definitely did that), but that doesn’t mean it’s the most efficient way, even in languages where figuring out the pronunciation of a word is far more straightforward. God knows there are plenty of words I didn’t realize I was pronouncing wrong until I was well into adulthood lol. No point risking internalizing an incorrect pronunciation!
Personally, I really like the Tadoku methods.
I think they just shouldn’t be taken as an absolute imperative. Like, “don’t use a dictionary” doesn’t mean “do not ever, under any circumstances, use a dictionary”. It means “avoid using dictionary, unless you really need it”.
Also, different methods work for different people. The problem with looking everything up is not that it’s not fun – it’s that it is distracting. By the time I’ve looked up n-th word, I already forget what the sentence was about. Not everyone has this problem. Those who don’t – probably wouldn’t need tadoku methods much.
Also, different methods can be used for different books. You can read some books using traditional methods and some – using Tadoku methods.
Ultimately, the only criteria is whether it works for you or not. Use what works best for you. If Tadoku methods work for you – use them. If not – don’t.
Thank you, I think that I’ll separate my reading into two categories:
1-easy light reading that is enjoyable because it doesn’t require much work
2-harder materials so I can look up more challenging grammar and vocabulary
That all being said. I just got a PS5, so I’m going to take a couple of days to chill other than Wanikani reviews.
For me, reading a sentence starts with identifying the sentence structure. Then, vocabularies that are possibly grammar points. Then lastly, vocabularies. Some vocabularies are more important than others, the so-called key vocabularies. They are just something that needs to be practiced routinely to make it natural.
Other people already said a lot about vocabularies. IMO, the very first problem isn’t the lookup itself, but the repeated lookup on the same word. This will strengthen only the definition, but not really the function in the sentence or the feel. Or it may even just strengthen the “English” equivalence.
Later on, it would be helpful to learn not only how to infer the vocab meaning from the sentence, but also the vocab meaning from the Kanji or sound components. Homophones and sound-alikes also count, imo.
I’ll tell you how I learned most of my grammar. It worked really well for me, no idea if it’ll work for you.
Basically looots of input and slowly reading through a grammar book (Tae Kim’s), without doing any exercises or anything. I read through it just enough to know the grammar existed, maybe enough to recognise that it’s something I’ve read about when I saw it.
Then when I saw it (or rather, heard it, in my case), I could recognise it was something I’d read about. That alone usually helped me understand the meaning through context and vaguely remembered snippets from the grammar book.
I’ve never enjoyed doing repetitive grammar exercises, but I like reading about grammar, so that worked for me. It might not work for you.
I find that I need to write out grammar practice sentences for learning. I made it half-way through Genki 1, then switched to みんなの日本語 because I wasn’t happy with the grammar explanations. I’m actually working through all of the みんなの日本語 companion textbooks as well (Reading Practice, Listening Exercises, Sentence Patterns, Kanji, Extra Problems, and the Grammar and Translation Guide).
That sounds really interesting, I think I will try that.
I have the problem that when I am working through a grammar textbook i get exhausted really easily in addition to getting frustrated over how slow it is. But I also noticed that I am able to pick up grammar that I didnt study but I encountered through talking or reading. So perhaps this brushing over grammar points could be helpful to build a small foundation to refine later.
I am finding these days that I’m not quite happy wth Genki explanations either (6 lessons in).
However, TokiniAndy covers the lessons on YT and I say he’s a godsend… at least up to this point.
Not sure I want to shell out also for みんなの日本語… it can get quite expensive with the companion materials.
Do you find it much of an improvement over Genki?
Interesting method!
Do you come up with your own sentences in English and then write down their Japanese traslations?
I am going quickly through the textbooks though with practically no exercises from the books aside from reading the dialogues, but use BunPro to drill a bit both Genki grammar and vocab.
It’s getting a little complicated (some BunPro sentences are “easy”, some are “wtf am I looking at?” even though they are classified as N5 level ) but I do aim to start “proper” reading once I finish Genki 1 and while going through Genki 2.
I think it’s very cool that you’re doing this so early on… I am still afraid of diving in. Mostly out of the frustration I got with having to look up the majority of words from NHK articles I tried a while ago. Lookups are annoying plus, if I look up 80% of a text, does that even count as “reading Japanese”? It’s more “reading a word-by-word English translation” and not terribly useful.
I don’t think I could let any of the content just “wash over me”, I’d have to look up every single unkown item be it vocab or grammar point.
But I’d venture a guess your method, as long as it works for you, is better than no exposure to actual content
) but I do aim to start “proper” reading once I finish Genki 1 and while going through Genki 2.