魔女の宅急便 (Kiki’s Delivery Service) Discussion Thread: Chapter 4

No need to apologise, I do this all the time! :joy:
Also, good detective work on the しめた.

No, that’s really not it. I understand how Japanese sentences are ordered very well. The problem is that the text saying which character spoke is not always following the speech, in either English or Japanese. The following pattern is also perfectly valid, and I’m pretty sure we’ve seen examples of it in this book:

English:
John said, “Good morning.”

Japanese:
ジョンが言いました。
「おはよう」

And there’s the key difference — in Japanese, because these tags and the speech they’re tagging appear as separate paragraphs, you can’t tell (without other clues) whether such a tag applies to the speech before it or after it. Usually it’s the speech before it, but not always. In English, this ambiguity does not occur because it’s the same paragraph (and often, as in this example, the very same sentence).

Well you’re absolutely right, that does happen, and it doesn’t make things any easier! But if we could count on the “so-and-so said” always coming after the quote, it’d still be manageable. But we can’t. Unfortunately I don’t have an example from the book handy (assuming my guesses about the Kiki-Jiji conversation were correct). But maybe I’ll remember to point it out next time.

Thanks everyone for your help — especially with 土の中から出てきたもぐらみたい; I feel foolish for having misread 土 as 上 (a mistake I’ve made before — maybe this time it will finally sink in!). I think, context wise, I was simply not expecting the text to suddenly be talking about soil and moles! Gotta watch out for those similes and metaphors! :smiley:

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Of course, I wasn’t trying to imply otherwise. In long sentences following dialog I sometimes completely forget that there even was dialog because it takes so long to get to the 言いました (or whatever variation).

Ah, thank you for the example. That really clears up what you mean. I haven’t found this issue to be particularly troublesome on its own, but when you put all these factors together it certainly gets confusing.

Yeah, it took me two or three times to understand this sentence. The metaphors always throw me off!

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That わかってもらえる on p78 was still bugging me, so I looked up わかる again.
Apart from the main meaning of “to understand, to comprehend, etc” there is a related meaning “to become clear; to be discovered”. So maybe in the context of Osono-san saying she will come up with a plan,

Kiki’s reply is more like: “Okay. I’m sure now something will become clear (with your help)”.

@Kyasurin I think Kiki was talking about getting the townspeople to understand that witches don’t do bad things. As you probably already know, verbて + もらう = “to get somebody to do something” or to persuade somebody to do something.
もらえる is the potential form meaning can get somebody to do something or more literally means “can receive the favor of somebody doing something”. It hasn’t happened yet, but can happen. So わかってもらえる would mean “can get/persuade somebody to understand”.

In this context, I don’t think Kiki is saying that she can get Osono to understand that witches don’t do bad things because, of course, she already understands. I think Kiki is saying that she can get/persuade the townspeople to understand. So the translation would be something like “It’s OK (don’t worry). Before long, I can certainly get/persuade (the townspeople) to understand.”

Any comments on my explanation are welcomed because it might be kinda weak. :anguished:

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I like your explanation. It makes the most sense of all.
Especially now that I realise 今に means “before long”. I had been processing it as “now”.

Three cheers for book club!

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@MissMisc Since it looks like you’ve been the one creating the new chapter threads, please update the URL to the vocab sheet in new threads to directly link to that chapter’s tab. When you select a tab in the vocab sheet, the URL changes so you can just use that. I’ve already updated all the existing threads to directly link to their tabs.

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Oh awesome! I didn’t know that. Will do :slightly_smiling_face:

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On page 75 of the blue book, I’m trying to figure out Kiki’s reply when Jiji implies he wants to go in the cage.

「まったく、ジジったら、あたしと同じ年って思うといやになるわ」

「まったく、ジジったら」= general exasperation/surprise towards Jiji
「同じ年」= same age
「いやになる」= to get fed up with; to get sick of; to become disgusted with​ (according to jisho; though looking at it together like this compared to separately as いや・に・なる doesn’t really add much)

Also, I’m assuming the second と is an “if” / “when”.

With all that, I’m still having trouble piecing it together. Is she basically saying (liberally translated):
“Come on Jiji. To think we’re the same age”?

I’d be a bit surprised if Kiki and Jiji were the same age since 13 is fairly old for a cat, though they never really indicated how old Jiji was, so I suppose it’s possible.

So can someone tell me if my liberal translation is on the right track? Either way, can someone give me a more literal translation to help my understanding?

I can’t add anything to your translation.
However, at the end of Chapter 1, it does explain that a witch, after giving birth to a daughter, finds a black cat born around the same time and brings them up together. So that means Kiki and Jiji are the same age, and I guess Kiki feels that Jiji is old enough to behave himself.
Domestic cats can live more than 20 years, I believe, if they manage to avoid ill health and misadventure! :smiley_cat:

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Oh, I guess I didn’t catch that (or just forgot haha). Thanks!

I think they say something about picking a black cat when they are very young on the first 10 or so pages but can’t remember exactly what it says.

EDIT
Damn it, 10 hours too late.

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I’m struggling with the conversation with the seamstress on p. 82-83 (red book). I guess I get the gist of it — take this birdcage to my nephew for his 5th birthday — but man, the details are fuzzy. I’ll try to ask just a few things.

The last line on p. 82 is in parentheses. Is this the narrator commenting, or what? And what’s the meaning of this line — I got something like “while the thing to be carried was not said, it’s because she decided alone,” which doesn’t make much sense.

On p. 83, I don’t understand かごと in あの子ったら、新しい取りかごとお人形と、二つもほしいっていうのよ。 I guess this is something like “That kid, says he wants a bird doll, and a second one”? What am I missing here?

Finally, I think there’s some humor or tone to this passage which is going completely over my head. I’d think Kiki would be happy to have a customer, but she seems to be doing lots of remaining silent and 口をまげて (twisting her mouth?). What’s up with that?

The parentheses are Kiki’s internal monologue. The seamstress is offering to shorten Kiki’s dress as payment for the delivery; I believe Kiki is a bit upset that she’s deciding what a fair payment is when she hasn’t even said what the object being delivered is.

I fixed a typo here, which might help. The delivery is a 鳥かご–a birdcage–with a doll inside it.

I believe 口をまげる is to frown, but I’m not 100% certain on that.

One joke which might be easy to miss: Kiki says that payment to a witch should traditionally be おすそ分け–repayment in kind, or barter. The seamstress offers to adjust her お裾–her hem, which is a pun of course. (This might also be why Kiki is frowning.)

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The customer said she thought witches would have fangs or horns, so Kiki wasn’t particularly happy.
「魔女だっていうから、口から牙はやして、頭に角(つの)でもついているのかと思ったわよ」
“Because of what they say about witches, I thought they’d have fangs in their mouth or horns on their head or something like that.”
(Not sure about the 魔女だっていうから part, but that’s close.)

The customer gave a bored looking face because Kiki looks normal, contrary to what she was expecting, And even though 「ひどい!」is in quotes, I’m pretty sure the text is saying that Kiki wanted to say that but didn’t, because 口をつぐむ means “to hold one’s tongue”. Either way, not a good first impression, and that would kill the mood of any conversation.

I partially misunderstood the payment part (I didn’t realize the customer was talking about hemming Kiki’s dress as @damienneil said; I thought she was talking about a separate skirt/dress), but this also affected the tone. Kiki wasn’t particularly happy about being told what the payment would be without a say. And as @damienneil said, that’s what was in the parentheses.

There’s also the fact that the customer wouldn’t stop talking and was kind of strange. Like instead of telling Kiki her nephew’s name, she just calls him a 腕白坊主 (naughty boy, brat) and says that’s how Kiki will know who her nephew is. I’m sure that earned a funny look too. And then the customer leaves, just like that.


Also, thanks @damienneil for explaining the pun. Definitely didn’t catch that :sweat_smile:

Thanks guys! I actually caught the pun about the skirt, but totally missed 鳥かご = birdcage, as well as the internal commentary. ひとで決めちゃう — she decided by herself — totally makes sense now.

And yes, I think you’re right, Kiki didn’t actually say ひどい out loud:
「ひどい!」っていいそうになって、あわてて口をつぐみました。
I read this as: Flustered, she closed her mouth as if to say, “How cruel!”

So, yeah, this customer’s pretty rude… but still, if I were Kiki’s shoes, I think I’d be so happy to have a customer I’d just see the humor in it.

Or maybe not. It occurred to me while reading this that this is (at least in part) a story about prejudice. Deep stuff, eh?

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So I just watched the scene with the first customer in the Studio Ghibli adaption. It’s amazing how watered down the film is compared to the movie (though I guess I shouldn’t be that amazed since that often happens).

In the movie, the customer talks to Kiki in the bakery, calls her a cute witch, asks Kiki to deliver the present (still a bird cage and stuffed animal cat), and then offers some cash after Kiki says she hasn’t set a price yet. Nothing about すそわけ. Nothing insulting or rude. I’d heard that the movie doesn’t follow the book’s plot that closely, but still I’m disappointed.

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口をまげる in Google search Images:
kuchi

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Yes, but it also turns up a wide variety of other expressions, including a fair number of smiles, and some people making truly bizarre faces.

I think unless we get a more definitive answer, I’m going to read this as “she made a face” (which fits here just fine, since the writer kindly told us what sort of face she was making).

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