コンビニ人間: Week 3 Discussion

Ah, unfortunately that wasn’t it… Can’t remember the name right now.

But does it mean there are more Ameyayokocho capsule hotels with back doors to konbinis?

2 Likes

(Warning: I unintentionally wrote a ridiculously long post.)

Not gonna lie, I spent a good amount of time on Sunday reading this next section. I’m surprised how invested I am in the book. Can’t remember the last time I felt this way, which is nice. :grin:

Difficult passages: There were two sections I tried working out. I think I understand them now, but feel free to correct me if you think I misinterpreted anything.

pg. 30: 新人を昼勤でとるかしないと

  • 新人を→ newcomer / new recruit
  • 昼勤で→ at day shift
  • とるか→ may take
  • しないと→ if/when won’t do
    When trying to make sense of this, I found that 「そうしないと」means “otherwise, if not, or else,” so if the しないと here has a similar connotation, then roughly this whole thing means:
    “If a new recruit isn’t taken on for the day shift…(the store will become unable to function).”
    This seems to fit the context of the rest of the sentence in that section.

pg 33-4: 諦めるなら諦めるで、前以て言ってくれない、結局しわ寄せが他のバイトに来るだけじゃないですかー!

  • 諦めるなら諦めるで→ If you’re quitting/going to quit ( 〜(の)なら〜で:when the same word is repeated in both spots, means speaker acknowledges a certain situation to be the case, then states what action should be taken in this situation or expresses criticism/regret that something hasn’t been done; explanation paraphrased from Handbook of Japanese Grammar Patterns)
  • 前もって言ってくれない→ don’t tell (us) in advance
  • 結局しわ寄せが→ ultimately, the (shifting of the) burden
  • 他のバイトに来る→ comes to other part-timers
  • だけじゃないですかー!→ isn’t it only

So, roughly:
“If you’re going to quit, and not tell us in advance, isn’t the burden ultimately only coming to (us) other part-timers?!”

Intriguing passages: I’m surprised no one has brought up the fact that our girl Keiko’s literally been peeping under bathroom stalls! Last week’s section made me forget about the different antics she gets into, but OH BOY this week reminded me. On the one hand, I get it: she doesn’t know how to be a “normal” woman in her 30s, which is something she really wants. And of course, since people never explained anything to her, there’s no previous explanation on “boundaries” she can think back to, but… :sob: Part of me also wonders if Izumi’s comments about sharing similar interests is a hint that she knows Keiko’s copying her style. I also have to wonder if they know about Keiko; she nearly word-for-word repeats Sugahara’s phrase, only making the ending polite. You can tell Keiko’s really worked hard to try and find ways to “fit in.” I just…I wish her parents had done more. Maybe the book will get into that later on. Never mind. I thought Keiko was also in the bathroom when Izumi would go, but I guess she just looks at the shoes in the locker while Izumi is in there, so…ちょっと恥ずかしいな〜 :sweat:

Final question: I don’t think Keiko is unique in this regard. My fiancé, for example, sometimes says “Oy vey” when he’s frustrated. He got this from me, and I got it from my uncle. Even if you just look at your parents, there’s probably a number of things from them that you’ve picked up and internalized as your own. Granted, she’s doing it in a very conscious way, whereas a lot of the time people may embody others more subconsciously. Still, you might hear a turn of phrase from a friend and think, “Oh, I like that,” and consciously start using it. I think it’s hard not to, in some way, embody those that we surround ourselves with. That’s probably why you hear things like, “Surround yourself with positive people.”

4 Likes

No, I think she was looking at their street shoes, left in their lockers, while they were in the bathroom (wearing their work shoes).

Yeah, everyone copies the speech patterns of the people around them. She just does it on purpose.

4 Likes

Wooooooah, prime example of a misinterpretation. I guess that makes me feel better for Keiko, at least.

3 Likes

Another week down: the first couple of pages were a breeze, but I found it got much more difficult once she started interacting with her co-workers. The thing that I found really interesting was the contrast between her dialogue with colleagues and inner dialogue. A bit jarring! But it makes sense when you consider that it’s mostly all an act. I am frankly quite impressed with the sophistication of her coping mechanism, even if I’m not sure they are all healthy.

Some lingering questions that haven’t been addressed:

  • 昨日の気温との差も重要だ、今日は最高気温21度、最低気温14度 - (14%) I understand that is she is commenting on the importance in difference in temperature, but can’t quite understand why there is a と. The grammar explanations I’ve found for using 差 just use の by itself.

  • バイトリーダーとして信頼がおかれている泉さんだ。Struggling with this sentence - I get it’s describing 泉さん as somehow trustworthy(?) but don’t understand the おかれている。

  • 人が減って困ったなあと思うだけど (17%) Another instance where I’m not sure what is being said. I think less people is a problem?

  • 自分が中に、「朝」という時間が運ばれてくる感じがする. (18%) Attempted breakdown below

Summary

自分が= Myself
中に = on the inside
「朝」という時間が = morning time
運ばれ = to be moved
てくる = to come to
感じがする = to have a feeling

I find myself, inside, come to be moved into morning time.

That’s all I’ve got. Looking forward to continue into next week.

3 Likes

気温の差は〇度 would simply be stating the difference in temperature. 昨日の気温との差 means the difference in temperate compared to yesterday. You can combine some particles with の to allow you to directly modify a noun. For example, 彼女からのプレゼント.
For more details, see Combined Particles

One meaning for おく according to jisho is “to place (one’s trust, one’s faith, etc.)”, which seems to fit.

Her reaction to there being fewer people is thinking 困ったなあ. Importantly, the 人が減って isn’t part of her thoughts. (At least that’s how I read it.)

Afraid I can’t make sense of this one without more context. I’m sure someone will come by with an answer to this one.

4 Likes

It was answered here (post 36, under 21%):

1 Like

Just finished up the previous week’s reading, which started off fairly easy. Felt like I stumbled a bit when Keiko analyzed Sugawara and Izumi. Most of my issues I think stemmed from following the logic and subjects in longer / more complex clauses (as covered in previous posts). One of these days I really need to dig into grammar and get a more solid understanding.

The actual content of the week’s reading has been setting up a good foundation for Keiko as she is now and how much she relies on work to hold a sense of self together. Her self-awareness inhabits this odd middle-ground where she’s able to cobble together an identity from her surroundings, but it never goes beyond that. Being in her little box of light is enough for her.

"光の箱" is also apparently a manga about konbini. Is this just a common turn of phrase?

8 Likes

To add in a little more, Clause-verbてform+emotional feeling is the most common way of saying : Because of “clause” I’m feeling “emotion”

友達に会えなくて、 寂しい。(pandemic special :grimacing:)
プレゼントをもらって、 嬉しい。
ニュースを聞いて、 びっくりした。
約束の時間に遅れて、 すみません。
人が減って、困った。

Because of “人が減る” I’m 困った

7 Likes

I am still learning a lot and there was a lot of vocabulary and grammar that I didn’t know in this chapter. And thank you for everybody that is working on the spreadsheet.

As I was going through the spreadsheet, I did notice there were 3/4 words that either had the incorrect translation or it had a different translation that would have suited the context much better. I added the correct translation to the spreadsheet. This was a couple days ago, so I forgot the exact words. Next time, if I catch those, I will write them down and post them in the group discussion.

I would encourage others to do the same, since we are all still learning, I think we all benefit from helping each other out. Many times I look up words in the dictionary, just to later find out in the forum that there was another obscure translation or set phrase that I wasn’t aware of when I translated the word.

4 Likes

Is that “three-quarters” or “three or four”?

But yeah, I noticed a couple - for example, 微笑む was being parsed as a noun 微笑 instead, and for some reason 着替える was entered as 着せ替える, which I’m almost wondering if it’s a difference in editions.

Oh I meant 3 or 4 words, not three quarters. The mistakes I noticed would completely change the sentence rather than noun/verb.

Once again, we are all learning (myself included), so I just wanted to bring that up so we can be aware of it and help each other out!

From the Vocab Sheet Editing Guide:

“If you are reasonably confident of the word itself and the appropriate translation for the context, go for it! If you are unsure of a word’s meaning, feel free to add it to the vocab sheet, but highlight the row in yellow so that other readers can confirm it or fix it. If you’ve tried hard but still cannot find the meaning of a word, feel free to add it without a definition, but highlight the row in red.”

This won’t prevent all mistakes but it should help clean things up a bit. If something is not highlighted but it is wrong, call it out on the forums. Utilizing this rule more should also help people feel more comfortable if they’re initially hesitant to contribute.

3 Likes