見当たる to discover?

I think you are confusing passive voice and intransitive verbs. Check the first paragraph in this page here http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/passive.htm for more examples on how passive voice works.

It’s just that intransitivity and passive voice work differently in different languages (as I showed with some examples in Spanish), so when we try to transfer the concept we have in our language to another, it may work (as with “to break”) or not (as with “to discover”)

However, if you got it already, and it is easier to understand Japanese intrasitivity as passive voice (which makes more sense in English), ignore me, because it will just be more confusing. :smiley: I’m just a linguist nerd :stuck_out_tongue:

I spent some time to accept 好き as an adjective when it translates as a verb (to like) in English. Now I’m in peace with it. :blush: so I guess at some point the Japanese verb system will make sense for me too.

Hey this may help
http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/grammar/in-transitive

Just because I feel like throwing a wrench as I walk by, I recently learned that 好き can use を as well! I was watching Frozen in Japanese, saw it used, and confirmed with a Japanese speaker. Then I spent some time googling to see the nuances of it.

It was shocking to see that core example of something where you can’t use を because it’s a different grammatical category in Japanese turn out to be only half true.

:scream:
Now I won’t be able to sleep (00:30 here in Montreal).
Please elaborate, Leebo.

It’s as simple as it sounds. Sometimes you can say 何々を好き instead of 何々が好き. I don’t know all the little details yet, but it was just 私を好き? in Frozen “he loves me?”

Here’s a stack exchange question about it… haven’t read through it all yet.

I found some examples of this usage when you add こと

Why am I confusing them? The link to Tae Kim says that passive = intransitive, which is what I’ve been saying. It says 開く to be opened is intransitive. This is one of your passive verbs.

The link I posted lists them the other way round, which is confusing, I think this is a mistake…

開く [あく] TRANS
(v5k,vi) (1) to open; to become open; to become empty

開ける [あける] INTRANS
(v1) to open

So, 開く is intransitive in Japanese, right? Totally correct. However, when you translate it into English (to be opened), you are using an English passive voice form. For 開く, you could have an intransitive form with the verb “to open” in English, because “to open” in English can be both transitive (I open the door) and intransitive (the door open). By the way, that’s why “to open” admits the passive voice (the door was opened) in English, because only verbs that can be transitive can take the passive voice. For example, you cannot say “I was slept”, because “to sleep” is intransitive only.

Japanese doesn’t have the verb to be (or anything that works like it, except -です in some cases, but not all cases… another discussion), so it doesn’t really have a passive voice. They use intransitive verbs to convey a similar meaning (that an object or person received the action). English language can convey this meaning with both passive voice and intransitivity, depending on the verb and context.

Another example of one syntactic feature in Japanese that can take two forms is English is the Imperfect Verb Form. for example, 食べます can be both a present (I eat) or a future (I will eat) tense in English, whereas in Japanese is simply Imperfect.

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たなかさんはまど を あけました。
tanaka san wa mado wo akemashita
Meaning: Mr Tanaka opened the window.

まど が あきました。
mado ga akimashita
Meaning: Window opened. (or “the window was opened”, a passive voice, would work better than this intransitive form in English)

せんせいはでんき を つけました。
sensei wa denki wo tsukemashita
Meaning: Teacher swithed on the light.

でんき が つきました。
denki ga tsukimashita
Meaning: Light switched on.

はははテレビ を けしました。
haha wa terebi wo keshimashita
Meaning: My mother switched off the TV.

テレビ が きえました。
terebi ga kiemashita
Meaning: TV switched off.

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Makes sense, cheers.

Just got a mail from WaniKani saying they are reviewing the whole issue of trans/intrans verbs and how they are explained.

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