なぜ？どうして？Finished!

Japanese Language Book Clubs
1929

Page 61:

Regarding the last sentence:

一日中、おひさまが しずまないか、しずんでも 明るい げんしょうの ことを 「白夜」 と いいます。

This か is 下 right?
Regarding んでも, the only think I can think is the て form of しず + も

So:

The sun doesn’t set (down) in all day and even sinking this bright phenomenon is called “Midnight Sun (white night)” I don’t like it

EDIT:
What about this: Conditional

たくさん食べ ても 、太りません。
Meaning: Even if I take a lot of food, I don’t put on weight.

The sun doesn’t set (down) in all day and even if it sinks this bright phenomenon is called “Midnight Sun (white night)”

1930

I think you’ve got most of it OK but I think げんしょうの ことを 「白夜」 と いいます is the main clause.

I think 一日中、おひさまが しずまないか、しずんでも 明るい is a clause that modifies げんしょう

1931

How would you translate the sentence?

1932

Page 60

the ‘Zu-form’ is a new one to me. Will be looking in to that now.

1933

Ok, so the main clause is
They call the phenomenon the “White Night” (Midnight Sun)

The modifying clause I think is translated as
“throughout the whole day the sun is bright whether it doesn’t descend or even if it descends”

So together,

They call the phenomenon, where throughout the whole day the sun is bright whether it doesn’t descend or even if it descends, the “White Night” (Midnight Sun).

Not very smooth but I think this is a possible rough translation.

The confusing part is the sun descending but still bright which I think means that during the White Night period even though the sun is moving around in the sky as usual and does descend, it’s not to the point where it goes below the horizon leading to darkness.

1 Like
1934

Page 61:

I see what you mean. A very literal translation: The whole day, even if the sun descends or doesn’t, a bright phenomenon is called “Midnight Sun”

In this case, か means “2. or; whether or not​after each alternative”

But I think Bright directly connect to げんしょうの ことを, not to sun. Any thoughts?

1 Like
1935

I thought there were 3 possible translations for か in this context. It could mean there was an embedded question, or mean “or” or “whether”. It didn’t seem like an embedded question so I thought “or” or “whether” made more sense.

Maybe someone can check the rules for it meaning “or”. I don’t know if it has to occur between two nouns or not.

To me, it made more sense for it to go with おひさま because of しずんでも which together meant “even if it does descend, ( おひさま) is bright”.

1 Like
1936

Page 61:

I agree it makes more sense, but 明るい is next to げんしょう, without anything else. It has to be and adjective of げんしょう, right???

1937

Yes, it was a little confusing to me as well but the modifying clause didn’t seem complete without it so that’s why I thought it went with おひさま. I could be totally wrong of course.

Edit: Remember the clause I was having trouble with before a few days ago on p56
よちよち 歩く すがたが とても あいらしい ペンギンは、どうぶつ園などでも 大人気ですね。

Here’s the adjective あいらしい that goes with すがた even though it’s right next ペンギン.

1 Like
1938

Mmmm…A Penguin with a very cute form of walking

A Phenomenon with “a bright sun even if it descends or doesn’t in the whole day”, is called “Midnight Sun”

Weird :stuck_out_tongue:

1 Like
1939

しずまないか、しずんでも

I was trying to find out if this ~か +てverb+も construction could be explained somewhere but I can’t find anything. I’m pretty sure there’s some better way to translate this part.

Maybe it’s time for a native speaker consult hint hint.:wink:

1 Like
1940

That is exactly it - thank you.

In fact the first example on the page you linked to is very similar to our text:
四月になると、桜さくらが咲さく。
When it becomes April, cherry blossoms will blossom.

And in the our text:
…ある じきに なると、夜でも おひさまが しずまず…
…when it becomes a certain time, even at night the sun doesn’t set…

1 Like
1941

Page 61:

I have asked a native…

A phenomenon with the sun not sinking for a whole day, or the outside is still bright even after the sun sets, is called “Midnight Sun”

He also said:

一日中おひさまが しずまないか、しずんでも 外がまだ明るい げんしょうの ことを 「白夜」 と いいます。
COMMENT
If I were making this sentence, I’ll write like this

The original sentence is lacking the information and not clear.
It’s very “Japanesed” sentence I guess lol

5 Likes
1942

Sounds much better but is he saying the sun actually does set during a White Night? I thought the sun never sets. :thinking:

1943

In some parts it might set, but still be bright!!

I asked a second native to be sure:

In this sentence two types of phenomenon is explained

1 おひさまがしずまない
The sun doesn’t descend

2 しずんでも明るい
Even though it descend the sun is bright

2 Likes
1944

Ok, so in the first translation, the sun sets but the outside is bright.

In the second, the sun is bright even though it descends. Hmm…

Edit: Oh, so you’re saying the sun can set and not be visible but because the sky is bright, it’s still considered a White Night.

1945

The first guys says that it implies that the sky outside is bright, even after the sun sets.

The second is more literal

1 Like
1946

So in the first translation, “the sun not sinking for the whole day” but then says “after the sun sets”. Hmmmm…:laughing:

Edit:
So another full translation:

They call the phenomenon the “White Night” when it’s bright throughout an entire day whether the sun is up or or even down.

By the way, thanks for taking the time to ask some natives. Appreciate the help!:v:

4 Likes
1947

That’s great thanks. The fact that the 明るい precedes the げんしょう but doesn’t modify it makes it quite difficult for us non natives!

1948

It does modify it… it’s just that it’s not modifying it by itself. It’s part of that long relative clause which modifies げんしょう.

2 Likes